# Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962
**Category:** The Quarantine Zone
**Tags:** covid-quarantine
**Created:** [April 3, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962 "2020-04-03T14:44:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 29
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/562 "2020-08-17T18:20:14Z")
I don’t understand anything about their economies at all, so I can’t comment on that. Considering how many more deaths and cases Sweden had, you’d hope for them to do dramatically better, I imagine.
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### Author:  [@transcriber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transcriber)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2020, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/563 "2020-08-17T18:24:41Z")
Yes. It’s a little surprising really. But it should be noted, asahi was entirely incorrect to say that was the stated reason Sweden chose their approach. Their stated motivation was a sustainable approach to social distancing, not saving the economy. He shouldn’t just make up goals for them and declare they failed.
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### Author:  [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/564 "2020-08-17T20:25:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> Considering how many more deaths and cases Sweden had, you’d hope for them to do dramatically better, I imagine.
You’d hope. Unfortunately, they didn’t do better. Norway uses a different calendar, so it’s not a perfect apples to apples comparison, but the GDPs of Norway, Finland, and Denmark all appear to have taken less of a hit in Q2 than Sweden.
> **[Sweden's GDP slumped 8.6% in Q2, more sharply than its neighbors despite its...](https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?r=US&IR=T)**
>
> Denmark, Finland, and Norway all registered disruptions, as well as shielding their populations from COVID-19 with lockdowns.
It would appear that **Sweden Fucked Up.**
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/565 "2020-08-17T22:46:29Z")
What do you suggest – or, what does the paper suggest – Sweden could have done to less fuck their economy up?
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### Author:  [@transcriber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transcriber)
#### Post date: [August 17, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/566 "2020-08-17T23:44:38Z")
The argument isn’t complicated. Sweden didn’t benefit economically, compared to its Nordic neighbors, from its more light touch approach to covid response. So, it should have been more proactive. Like its Nordic neighbors did.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/567 "2020-08-18T02:45:45Z")
It’s not complicated but it may be simplistic.
The concept behind the not so well executed Swedish approach is that most countries, their neighbors included, will end up with some fraction of their populations infected. Now or later. Their approach was predicated upon the idea that hitting it sooner in a manner that did not overwhelm healthcare systems (not overwhelmed but not sure if hit that fraction yet and initially failed to protect the elderly as well as the plan demanded), is less costly over the complete course (in lives and economically) than having to return to lockdowns over winter and risking Covid surges at the same time as influenza ones.
Will they be better off over winter? While I suspect so to at least some degree I don’t know. But neither does any one else. Especially those most _sure_ that they do.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/568 "2020-08-18T12:11:00Z")
It’s not that their economic performance would have been better, it’s that their number of cases and fatalities would have been lower.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/569 "2020-08-18T12:21:32Z")
And what exactly is meant by “sustainable”? It’s beyond obvious that Sweden attempted to the presumed economic pain that a shutdown would entail. Is that the only reason they didn’t shut down? No, but it’s silly to think that wasn’t part of the calculus.
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### Author:  [@transcriber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transcriber)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/570 "2020-08-18T12:28:29Z")
I think it means how long people will tolerate it. Maybe “how long can we afford to do it” was a consideration. Do you have some evidence of that?
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### Author:  [@transcriber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transcriber)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/571 "2020-08-18T12:38:33Z")
I should note: you made a specific claim
“In terms of economics, which was their justification for not shutting down in the first place”
Now you’re saying it’s some kind of read between the lines thing?
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/572 "2020-08-18T12:47:28Z")
I’m saying it’s common sense that economics is part of the decision to shut down or keep businesses open. I don’t think a cite is required for that.
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### Author:  [@transcriber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transcriber)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/573 "2020-08-18T12:53:02Z")
Well, you did more than that but whatever.
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/574 "2020-08-18T16:59:50Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#):
>
> Other doctors say that it’s likely from the summer holiday that Sweden takes every year that keeps people more isolated.
I don’t think there is any doubt that it is that. Stockholm is dead over the summer. Pretty much all the people at my workplace left Stockholm to go to summer homes. Even since work has resumed some of my workmates have stayed in their summer homes and are working from there. Last week 2/3 of my team were in summer homes.
And now what we are seeing, with people coming back, is that the infection rate is going back up. Not massively, but it has started to trend upwards. It was in the papers today that the downward trend is now over and in about a week’s time we will have a better picture of how things are going to go.
Apologies for the Swedish link, but I don’t know if this has been reported in the English press.
> **[Region Stockholms chefsläkare: Nedåtgående trenden tydligt bruten](https://www.dn.se/sthlm/region-stockholms-cheflakare-nedatgaende-trenden-tydligt-bruten/)**
>
> Sedan i torsdags har antalet coronasmittade som vårdas på sjukhus i Stockholm ökat med tolv personer.
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/575 "2020-08-20T11:25:47Z")
This is from a Brits in Sweden Facebook group and it is just maddening.
> [@](#):
>
> My partner has tested positive and I have mild symptoms but tested negative. I assume this is a false negative with a low viral load.
>
> I am furious. After all precautions we have taken its frustrating.
>
> No contact tracing FYI, and they suggested that the symptoms my partner has can’t spread the virus so she would probably be fine to go to work.
>
> We’re ignoring FHM recommendations and going by the WHO 10 day recommendation for asymptomatic positive results.
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2020, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/576 "2020-08-20T13:30:28Z")
What symptoms does the partner have?
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/577 "2020-08-20T15:41:54Z")
It doesn’t matter, it is an example of people in Sweden continuing to pretend that asymptomatic infection doesn’t occur, despite all the evidence otherwise, and also ignores that once you are ill symptoms can change rapidly. Add to that things like coughing are involuntary things that may not even be cause dby illness. We all clear our throats now and again, don’t we?
As someone living in Sweden, I recognise these attitudes. I’ve seen it everywhere over the past few months.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2020, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/578 "2020-08-20T15:53:49Z")
Yeah that is bad.
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/579 "2020-08-20T15:57:09Z")
Do they say how long they expect someone who has the virus to still test positive for it? I hear different things in different places. I wonder if there is some sort of worldwide standard for the tests they use, in terms of thresholds and such.
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### Author:  [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/580 "2020-08-20T15:58:30Z")
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> It’s not that their economic performance would have been better, it’s that their number of cases and fatalities would have been lower.
…to this point. That’s the thing about all this - it’s too early to count the score. It looks like current deaths/1M pop (Sweden 574 and US 533) is fairly close at this point (UK 609), in spite of the different approaches to lockdowns and other mitigation measures.
I think it all comes down to tolerance for deaths - it needs to be somewhere between zero but less than letting it fly. No one has come up with an acceptable number of deaths/1M yet.
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [August 20, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/581 "2020-08-20T16:20:54Z")
For example, they are investigating in New Zealand whether a worker who tested positive recently had been infected by someone close to a month ago:
> **[Covid-19 outbreak in NZ - latest from Health Minister](https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018760406/covid-19-outbreak-in-nz-latest-from-health-minister)**
>
> Health officials have yet to confirm whether a third strain of the coronavirus could be circulating in the community, with two cases still under investigation.
> The Director General of Health says officials now believe one of them - a maintenance...
I’m just wondering how long they would expect people to stay out of work, or self-isolate, or whatever.
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