### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/702 "2020-11-16T16:02:16Z")
Can we take Sweden out of the “do-nothing” category now?
> **[The Latest: Iowa's governor orders statewide mask mandate](https://apnews.com/article/angela-merkel-germany-coronavirus-pandemic-restaurants-040e25a5075ee9a847b073b2d51fb933)**
>
> IOWA CITY, Iowa — With Iowa hospitals filling up, Gov. Kim Reynolds has dropped her opposition to a statewide mandate for mask use to combat the spread of the coronavirus.
> [@](#):
>
> Sweden has placed a nationwide limit of eight people for all gatherings in an effort to bring down coronavirus infections. The limit takes effect Nov. 24 and will last for four weeks.
>
> Prime Minister Stefan Lofven on Monday urged fellow Swedes to cancel plans and stay at home because a ban is needed now more than ever to curb a record number of coronavirus infections in recent weeks that are burdening the country’s healthcare system.
>
> Sweden had opted for a different - and much debated - approach to handling the pandemic by keeping large sections of society open.
>
> But Lofven told a news conference that the situation will get worse and appealed to Swedes to “do your duty” and “take responsibility to stop the spread” of COVID-19.
>
> The Swedish government said last week that it would impose a nationwide, 10:00 pm ban on the sale of alcohol in bars, restaurants and night clubs as of Nov. 20.
>
> Home Affairs Minister Mikael Damberg warned that too many people were acting as “if the danger is over.”
---
### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [November 16, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/703 "2020-11-16T18:20:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> Can we take Sweden out of the “do-nothing” category now?
I find it quite interesting that a month or two ago all the talk here was how other countries were moving to be more like Sweden were as it was clearly the correct way to handle things. And now Sweden is slowly but surely moving to how other countries have handled it.
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/704 "2020-11-17T02:23:00Z")
This is less about Sweden and more that it just happens to be studied in Sweden. I’ve been seeing cases of reinfection being investigated in other areas as well in the news lately.
>
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2020, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/705 "2020-11-18T13:15:26Z")
And today we are up to 96 new recorded deaths, almost up to the peak that we had in April. (Daily deaths and daily recorded deaths are different as these will be spread over the past few days, but the same is true for deaths announced tomorrow, the day after etc. The peak daily deaths so far is 115 people).
---
### Author:  [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2020, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/706 "2020-11-19T08:57:30Z")
So Sweden is now in [lockdown](https://news.trust.org/item/20201116135516-ilta9/) too, right?
> More than 6,000 people with COVID-19 have died in Sweden since the pandemic began, a death rate per capita several times higher than that of its Nordic neighbours, if somewhat lower than some larger European countries such as Spain.
Only they do not want to call it a total lockdown. If I was a Swede I would feel that the response so far has not been good.
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/707 "2020-11-19T20:40:04Z")
It isn’t lockdown. People are still out and about, they just can’t have organised groups over eight people. I’m staying away from the centre of Stockholm, but my friends tell me it is still busy and the public transport is very busy.
Things are getting interesting here though. Folkhälsomyndigheten, the public health authority that Anders Tegnell is a member of, has been very, very anti mask. A lot of the everyday Swede’s reaction to masks is pretty much repeated verbatim from FHM. Namely that they don’t help protect you, people don’t wear them properly and they give a false sense of security. As we all know, masks are more about protecting others (amongst other things from an infection you may not know you have) than anything else, but thanks to the idiocy of FHM this is pretty much lost on the Swedes. I’ve had this argument a lot.
Well, today the Swedish Academy of Sciences publicly recommended that people wear masks, putting pressure on FHM. This could get interesting.
> **[Swedish Academy of Sciences calls for face masks to slow infection](https://www.thelocal.se/20201119/swedish-academy-calls-for-face-masks-to-slow-infection/)**
>
> The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences on Thursday recommended face masks as an
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [November 19, 2020, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/708 "2020-11-19T23:31:33Z")
> [@amanset](#):
>
> Well, today the Swedish Academy of Sciences publicly recommended that people wear masks, putting pressure on FHM. This could get interesting.
The WHO is also recommending that Sweden consider instituting a mask wearing policy, which is what led to this recommendation.
> **[WHO: Countries like Sweden should consider face masks](https://www.thelocal.se/20201117/world-health-organisation-urges-countries-like-sweden-should-consider-face-masks)**
>
> Sweden is one of few countries affected by a second wave of the coronavirus that has not recommended wearing face masks outside of healthcare settings.
---
### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2020, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/709 "2020-11-23T07:40:54Z")
Some of Sweden’s large cities are closing some government run places like gyms, museums, swimming pools, art galleries, zoos, meeting places in libraries, etc., to help slow the spread of covid.
> **[Stockholm and Malmö shut gyms, museums and swimming pools](https://www.thelocal.se/20201120/stockholm-and-malm-shut-gyms-museums-and-swimming-pools)**
>
> The Swedish cities of Stockholm and Malmö on Friday announced that they would shut down public swimming pools, museums, art galleries, gyms, and other municipally-run meeting places to slow the spread of coronavirus.
> [@](#):
>
> The Swedish cities of Stockholm and Malmö on Friday announced that they would shut down public swimming pools, museums, art galleries, gyms, and other municipally-run meeting places to slow the spread of coronavirus.
> . . .
> Skansen, the zoo, amusement park and open air museum on the island of Djurgården in Stockholm, also on Friday [announced that it would close from November 27th](https://www.skansen.se/sv/skansenstanger) for the first time in 129 years.
>
> All three cities are restricting the use of libraries, with Gothenburg on Monday announcing that it is closing its main City Library and Malmö announcing on Friday that it will close its City Archives.
---
### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/710 "2020-11-25T07:07:42Z")
Tegnell has always said that Sweden wasn’t trying for herd immunity. They were trying to create a sustainable model. He felt that the loose regulations in the beginning would be sustainable over the long term. Neither was right. The hard hit Sweden took in the beginning doesn’t seem to be slowing the virus now, and the original model of loose regulations wasn’t sustainable. There have been more regulations lately to help stem the tide of the infection so the hospitals are not overrun.
[Sweden Sees No Signs So Far Herd Immunity Is Stopping Virus](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-24/sweden-says-it-sees-no-signs-herd-immunity-is-stopping-the-virus)
> [@](#):
>
> There’s little evidence that herd immunity is helping Sweden combat the coronavirus, according to the country’s top epidemiologist.
>
> “The issue of herd immunity is difficult,” Anders Tegnell said at a briefing in Stockholm on Tuesday. “We see no signs of immunity in the population that are slowing down the infection right now.”
>
> Swedes have been more exposed to the virus than their neighbors elsewhere in the Nordic region, and every third Stockholmer tested has antibodies, according to figures [published this week](https://www.dn.se/sthlm/var-tredje-testad-stockholmare-har-antikroppar/). That’s after the country famously opted against a lockdown, relying instead on voluntary measures.
> . . .
> Swedes will no longer be free to gather in public in groups larger than eight. The sale of alcohol is now also banned after 10 p.m… . .
> . . .
> The new restrictions come amid warnings that Sweden’s intensive care beds are quickly filling up. Meanwhile, authorities in the country are warning against placing too much weight on a possible future vaccine.
---
### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/711 "2020-11-25T23:49:41Z")
Even if you accept that Tegnell and others are now disowning the specious herd immunity arguments for their policies, the sustainability was hardly more credible a rationale for their policies.
---
### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/712 "2020-11-27T22:39:56Z")
This is why I have always got quite annoyed at Swedes claiming that Sweden took “the scientific approach” (and as I have mentioned here, the implication that other countries did not). Sustainability, especially due to the economy, has bog all to do with the science of pandemics. The economy has very, very clearly always been at the forefront of Sweden’s policy.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/713 "2020-11-28T00:42:56Z")
I don’t know. Sustainability also has to do with human nature and politics. I guess if we were a world of robots then you could ignore that and depend solely on the “science of pandemics”.
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/714 "2020-11-28T00:58:33Z")
But that’s exactly the point. We can’t just work on science as other things come into play, yet the rhetoric from Sweden (and as a Swede, living in Sweden, I kind of have been subject to it a lot) has been about what makes them different is that they have taken a scientific approach. But not only have they not, but the hybrid method of part science part the realities of running a country are pretty much what every country has done.
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2020, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/715 "2020-11-28T08:33:17Z")
You might be interested in this (thorough) review:
> **[Leveraging epidemiological principles to evaluate Sweden’s COVID-19 response](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1047279720304130)**
>
> In the response to COVID-19, countries have implemented response strategies along a continuum of population- and venue-level specificity ranging from …
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2020, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/716 "2020-11-28T09:23:54Z")
Again, I’m not saying they haven’t followed some science. I am saying that science wasn’t their only concern, despite that being the claims that both Folkhälsomyndigheten and the Swedish population have made. They quite clearly have had one eye on the economy the whole time, exactly the same way as other countries have had.
I’d argue that this has been typically Swedish. Looking down their noses at everyone else for not being 100% the same as them, but ignoring their own failures and misrepresenting their own motives.
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2020, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/717 "2020-11-28T10:06:49Z")
> [@amanset](#):
>
> The economy has very, very clearly always been at the forefront of Sweden’s policy.
The irony is that Sweden’s economy has suffered along with the other European nations, sometimes more so because they were not allowed in other countries for a time due to the high infection rate in their country.
Sweden’s excess death rate can be seen in these graphs. The excess deaths are marked in weeks 15-25.
> **[Överdödlighet under coronakrisen](https://www.svt.se/datajournalistik/overdodlighet-under-corona/)**
>
> Innan pandemin dog i genomsnitt 1 700 människor per vecka. I år nådde vi under en vecka i april upp till 2 500 döda i hela landet. Hur har det sett ut i din region?
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2020, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/718 "2020-12-05T06:13:22Z")
For people in upper secondary school, generally aged 16-18, school will go to remote learning from Dec 7 to Jan. 6 in Sweden. The reasoning is to reduce the load on public transport and because the infection rate in this age group is rising.
Sweden has a high infection rate that has been increasing lately, including over 7,007 deaths.
[Sweden’s schools for over-16s shift back to remote learning](https://www.thelocal.se/20201203/swedens-schools-for-over-16s-shift-back-to-remote-learning)
> [@](#):
>
> They said it was “necessary” in order to curb a resurgence of the coronavirus across Sweden. A total of 272,643 people have tested positive in Sweden to date, including 7,007 fatalities and 3,364 intensive care admissions.
>
> The decision means that upper secondary schools (generally teenagers aged around 16-18 in Sweden) will have to quickly switch back to online teaching for the rest of the semester, from December 7th until January 6th.
> . . .
> “The aim is to reduce crowding, for example on public transport. But we are also seeing a large spread of infection in this age bracket,” said Carlson, adding that they would review the situation after Christmas but that there were no immediate plans to extend remote learning beyond January 6th.
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/719 "2020-12-09T18:39:12Z")
More signs that Sweden is slowly but surely coming round to kind of thinking that was going on in countries six months ago. They are now looking at introducing emergency legislation:
> **[The Government proposes temporary pandemic law](https://www.krisinformation.se/en/news/2020/december/government-proposes-temporary-pandemic-law)**
>
> The Swedish Government is proposing that a temporary pandemic law should come into force from 15 March 2021 until March 2022. The aim is that more activities will be covered by infection control regulations than is the case at present.
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/720 "2020-12-09T23:23:21Z")
Looks like their [deaths](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/) may be tapering off at the moment, and the peak there significantly lower than it was in the spring despite a reported case count several times larger. Let’s wish them well.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/721 "2020-12-10T00:51:58Z")
There might be another motive other than finally agreeing with other countries. After all, they are still doing better than some at the moment. To me, the quick development of a vaccine has invalidated their whole stated reason for a light touch. This will no longer be a years long grind. No need for a manageble burn of the disease. Everyone who dies of covid now could be saved if you hold on for six months.
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