# Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962
**Category:** The Quarantine Zone
**Tags:** covid-quarantine
**Created:** [April 3, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962 "2020-04-03T14:44:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 37
### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/722 "2020-12-10T04:36:44Z")
> [@FigNorton](#):
>
> Everyone who dies of covid now could be saved if you hold on for six months.
Saved for how long? Some of those people might die of something _else_ in the next six months.
Would certainly be nice if the vaccine were some sort of fountain of youth or elixir, but I fear it’s not.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/723 "2020-12-10T04:42:34Z")
Yes, there’s lots of old people who would’ve died this year anyways. Do you have some cutoff age in mind for medical care? Do you think it’s a waste to give them vaccines?
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/724 "2020-12-10T05:15:51Z")
Of course I don’t, and I never said anything of the sort. Do you?
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/725 "2020-12-10T05:20:24Z")
Well, then I don’t get your point about mentioning many people would have died anyway. I mean, if they have a deadly fire at an old folks home, does the fact that a bunch of them would have died in six months occur to you?
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/726 "2020-12-10T05:44:02Z")
I was addressing the notion that there is some kind of light at the end of a covid tunnel that will let everyone who would have died of the disease now enjoy long and healthy years without even a light touch in the way of restrictions and with no grind. I’m not sure it’s going to work that way, for many of those folks. I certainly hope it will, don’t get me wrong. But I wouldn’t count on their leaders looking at it that way.
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/727 "2020-12-10T05:44:21Z")
I mean, months ago I wouldn’t have been crazily far from that idea. If this was going on forever, we have to live with people dying from it. But there’s a bunch of apparently very useful vaccines coming. Can’t leave people behind now.
> [@SayTwo](#):
>
> I was addressing the notion that there is some kind of light at the end of a covid tunnel that will let everyone who would have died of the disease now enjoy long and healthy years without even a light touch in the way of restrictions and with no grind
I would love to examine this notion in more detail. Do you have links to people expressing it?
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/728 "2020-12-10T06:10:37Z")
Unlike in the spring of 2020, hospitals in Stockholm are getting overrun from the pandemic. Stockholm is at 99% of ICU capacity.
[99 percent of ICU places in Stockholm region filled: “The situation is very serious”](https://www.dn.se/sthlm/99-procent-av-iva-platserna-i-stockholms-lan-fyllda-laget-ar-mycket-allvarligt/)
> [@](#):
>
> **Intensive care in the Stockholm Region is under severe pressure.** **On Tuesday, the intensive care units were 99 percent full.** **This is the first time this has happened during the pandemic.**
>
> **- These are activities that are about life and death, so the situation is very serious, says Björn Persson, operations manager for perioperative medicine and intensive care at Karolinska.**
> . . .
> It was precisely this development we did not want to see. We Stockholmers have been crowded too much and socialized outside our households. Now that’s enough. It can not be worth this to have after work. To be crowded for Christmas gift shopping or seen for an Advent coffee. The consequences will be terrible, he says.
> . . .
> In the spring, we noticed how the pressure decreased, with fewer regular intensive care patients, but now it is not so. At Karolinska, we also have highly specialized intensive care for patients who can only be cared for here.
>
> At most 1,100 were diagnosed with covid patients at the same time in the region’s hospitals during the spring, and at most 230 in intensive care. But in the spring, care switched completely to covid care, while a larger proportion of regular medical care is now provided in parallel. Before the autumn, [state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell](https://www.dn.se/sverige/tegnell-okade-smittspridningen-ar-inte-en-andra-vag/) stated as recently as the end of October that the increasing spread of infection was not about a second wave. In Stockholm, it has now hit harder than expected.
translation [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/k9rv2y/sweden_99_percent_of_icu_places_in_stockholm/gf5yt4p/)
> [@SayTwo](#):
>
> Looks like their [deaths](https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/) may be tapering off at the moment, and the peak there significantly lower than it was in the spring despite a reported case count several times larger. Let’s wish them well.
> [@](#):
>
> **Please, remember there is lag in reporting and deaths reported on a certain day are usually mostly deaths that happened on previous days. On average it takes up to 11 days to report 90% of the deaths for a certain day (see in the links graphs about how that looks)**
from [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/k9nuod/daily_discussion_thread_december_09_2020/gf678xt/) from the guy who is keeping stats on a web page on the coronavirus in Sweden cited earlier in the thread
I wish everyone well in regards to the pandemic, regardless of where they’re located.
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### Author:  [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/729 "2020-12-10T06:43:45Z")
> [@FigNorton](#):
>
> I would love to examine this notion in more detail. Do you have links to people expressing it?
Here you go. 😉
> **[‘I Am Immortal!’ Screams 90-Year-Old British Woman Embarking On Epic...](https://www.theonion.com/i-am-immortal-screams-90-year-old-british-woman-emba-1845834963?utm_campaign=TheOnion&utm_content=1607466296&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=twitter)**
>
> LONDON—Pounding yet another Guinness while being cheered on by regulars at her neighborhood pub, Marjorie Davies, a 90-year-old British recipient of the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine, screamed, “I am immortal!” Tuesday as she embarked on an epic...
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### Author:  [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/730 "2020-12-10T14:49:28Z")
Vaccine’s a hell of a drug.
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/731 "2020-12-11T09:56:44Z")
> [@SayTwo](#):
>
> > [@FigNorton](#):
> >
> > Everyone who dies of covid now could be saved if you hold on for six months.
>
> Saved for how long? Some of those people might die of something _else_ in the next six months.
>
> Would certainly be nice if the vaccine were some sort of fountain of youth or elixir, but I fear it’s not.
The amount of deaths in Sweden is increasing. A lot of people are dying. More people are going to die. Are you seriously suggesting we shouldn’t bother as they might die of something else in the next six months?
As someone in a risk group (and as such has really not been a fan of Sweden’s approach as it very much has put me at risk), I thank you for your concern.
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/732 "2020-12-11T09:57:57Z")
So a press release has been , err, released telling us to read an SMS in three days.
> **[Text message with information about Covid-19](https://www.krisinformation.se/en/news/2020/december/sms-with-information-about-covid-19)**
>
> On Monday, 14 December, the population of Sweden will receive a text message. The purpose is to inform about the stricter regulations and general advice that is now coming into force throughout the country.
But yeah, it seems stricter measures in some form are on the way. Or maybe it is just reminding us of the current measures? Who knows? I guess it’ll give me something to think about over the weekend.
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/733 "2020-12-11T12:36:31Z")
> [@amanset](#):
>
> The amount of deaths in Sweden is increasing. A lot of people are dying. More people are going to die. Are you seriously suggesting we shouldn’t bother as they might die of something else in the next six months?
I’m not, no. I’m simply observing it is naive reasoning to believe that a firmer touch in the way of lockdown measures is going to keep ‘everyone’ alive for six months. I’m assuming there is some sort of calculus implicit in that line of reasoning, and if so it’s clear that it’s incomplete. (If it’s not clear, then replace ‘six months’ with ‘six years’.)
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/734 "2020-12-11T12:42:40Z")
> [@amanset](#):
>
> I guess it’ll give me something to think about over the weekend.
In the US, they could sign that with ‘Have a great weekend. YOLO.’ since people would.
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2020, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/735 "2020-12-13T07:36:08Z")
Sweden’s health care workers are quitting in high numbers, leaving the health care system in even bigger danger. Sweden is trying to get help from Finland, but they have their own problems.
[There’s an interesting graph in the article overlaying the case rates of several European countries. Sweden’s curve starts out later and has a much steeper rise that hasn’t gone down, than the other countries.]
[Sweden’s Covid Workers Are Quitting in Dangerous Numbers](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-12/swedish-covid-workers-are-quitting-leaving-icus-short-staffed)
> [@](#):
>
> But increasingly, staff are so desperate for some real time off that they see resignation as the only way out, Ribeiro said. A [survey](https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/personalen-befaras-sluta-nar-andra-vagen-ar-har-/) by broadcaster TV4 showed that in 13 of Sweden’s 21 regions, resignations in the health-care profession are now up from a year ago, at as many as 500 a month.
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### Author:  [@yarblek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yarblek)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/736 "2020-12-13T13:28:09Z")
Emergency care physician Dr. Andreas Lunded was recently interviewed by the BBC (bit about Sweden starting at 45:00 [Link](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w172x2z2rg0lg2w)) about the situation in Sweden.
> [@](#):
>
> We don’t really have the judirical tools to apply such strict lockdowns that other countries have done.
>
> […]
>
> You need… two periods of government in total of eight years to change a law like that.
Lunded _does_ say that that even with the current laws, they could have done better and had stricter measures. What I’m interested in is if the part I quoted is true, namely even IF they would have wanted to do similar lockdowns to other countries, they would have been unable to do so legally.
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### Author:  [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)
#### Post date: [December 13, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/737 "2020-12-13T14:08:51Z")
> [@yarblek](#):
>
> What I’m interested in is if the part I quoted is true, namely even IF they would have wanted to do similar lockdowns to other countries, they would have been unable to do so legally…
That’s been Sweden’s stance since the beginning that they could only give recommendations and not make anything enforceable. They maintain that the citizens are responsible enough to follow recommendations.
We’ll see on Monday.when they get a text with Covid-19 regulations if they’re enforceable or not.
> [@Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/732):
>
> So a press release has been , err, released telling us to read an SMS in three days. But yeah, it seems stricter measures in some form are on the way. Or maybe it is just reminding us of the current measures? Who knows? I guess it’ll give me something to think about over the weekend.
There’s also an emergency proposal that would seem to override that legal problem.
> [@Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/719):
>
> More signs that Sweden is slowly but surely coming round to kind of thinking that was going on in countries six months ago. They are now looking at introducing emergency legislation:
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2020, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/738 "2020-12-14T07:02:49Z")
> [@amanset](#):
>
> Are you seriously suggesting
Don’t take anything he says seriously.
Everyone down here on the European continent (outside the usual bunch of vaccine-and-virus skeptics) knows Sweden’s approach has been a slow motion disaster.
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### Author:  [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2020, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/739 "2020-12-14T11:21:12Z")
Well, you are of course more than welcome to whatever metrics you desire.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/740 "2020-12-14T11:30:23Z")
I will not respond to you outside of [the only context where I can speak directly](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saytwo-is-an-ignorant-fuckstick-of-the-highest-order/924070/43).
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### Author:  [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/741 "2020-12-14T12:47:17Z")
So the SMS being sent to the nation went out out today. I received it two minutes ago.
Amazingly, it mentions to read more at the website and was supposed to contain a link. But they managed to not include the link. So, basically, it is a message telling you to follow the rules but fails to give you a link to where you can read the rules.
As comically badly prepared as the rest of the COVID-19 response.
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