# Sweden to reinstate conscription **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 3, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264 "2017-03-03T02:43:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/1 "2017-03-03T02:43:08Z")
[Sweden](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sweden-brings-back-military-draft-amid-concerns-over-russian-aggression-n728271) is reinstating conscription amid concern over Russian aggression and the military failing to meet it’s recruitment targets. And this time around women will be drafted too. I wonder if the military’s recruitment problems have anything to do with wages for professional soldiers run well below the national average for the age group. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/2 "2017-03-03T04:15:15Z")
Another option would be to join NATO. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/3 "2017-03-03T04:22:13Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Another option would be to join NATO. Unfortunately that option may not be seen as being worth as much as it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/4 "2017-03-03T15:07:37Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Another option would be to join NATO. So that the USA will pay for most everything? ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/5 "2017-03-03T15:21:50Z")
I have a dear friend in Sweden; I hope she stays safe. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/6 "2017-03-03T17:29:44Z")
If you’d rather see the announcement in cartoon form, there’s[Scandinavia and the World.](https://satwcomic.com/suit-up-with-guns) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/7 "2017-03-04T00:18:05Z")
I have friends and former coworkers in Stockholm and Uppsala. I hope they stay safe. ETA: And an aunt in Göteborg too. I hope they stay safe. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/8 "2017-03-04T01:00:44Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > I have a dear friend in Sweden; I hope she stays safe. > [@Bullitt](#): > > I have friends and former coworkers in Stockholm and Uppsala. I hope they stay safe. > > ETA: And an aunt in Göteborg too. I hope they stay safe. I’m curious what you think is going to happen to them? While Russia has been a bit more belligerent lately, this change has been coming for a long time. The Swedish army has been in shambles for a while now. This is just their government realising that you can’t effectively defend a small country with a private army. No Swedish conscripts are going to be sent to foreign wars. Anyone you know, that might be drafted, will only be deployed when Swedish sovereignty is at stake. Sweden also has the entire Finnish army between them and Russia, which is nice for them. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/9 "2017-03-04T01:41:37Z")
All the stories I’ve seen emphasized Sweden being neutral because they aren’t a full member. They aren’t really in the Swiss style of neutral. Sweden is formally a NATO partner. They are one of five countries designated as “Enhanced Opportunities Partners.” Sweden has been a part of major NATO operations in the post-Cold War environment - Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Libya. They conduct training with NATO to ensure interoperability. Sweden hosts a Partnership for Peace training center to assist NATO with training the militaries of countries going through the PfP process. There’s an existing memorandum of Understanding between Sweden and NATO covering host nation support for NATO forces that might train, operate, or transit Sweden. They aren’t full members. There’s no Article 5 agreement. They most certainly have been leaning in to cooperation in a way that simply calling them neutral doesn’t capture. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/10 "2017-03-04T12:41:48Z")
Sweden is a house full of problems these days. Russians on the outside they want to talk about and tremendous pillage and rape issues on the inside that they don’t want to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/11 "2017-03-04T20:11:05Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > I’m curious what you think is going to happen to them? It’s about them and their loved ones being forced to join the military, how that fits into their personal plans, and that they stay safe in training. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/12 "2017-03-04T20:41:07Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > It’s about them and their loved ones being forced to join the military, how that fits into their personal plans, and that they stay safe in training. Meh, we had conscription the entire last century, so it’s nothing new. It’s just that after the cold war ended the number of people drafted kept getting lower and lower until some people started asking ‘Why are we doing it?’. Well, after this little failed experiment, those people finally realized what other people were saying when subject was being debated: We don’t have the population needed to recruit on a completely voluntary basis. Keep in mind conscription will be nowhere near the level it was during the cold war(35k in 1995, 7k in 2009, and now they’re talking about 4k per year), so it’s not like they’ll be drafting everyone they possibly can. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/13 "2017-03-04T23:29:29Z")
For only 4,000 additional people needed per year the obvious alternative is higher pay and benefits. Why not do this? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/14 "2017-03-05T00:09:50Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > For only 4,000 additional people needed per year the obvious alternative is higher pay and benefits. Why not do this? If the question is “Why?” the answer is usually “Money.” It’s probably way cheaper to draft a few thousand people than to pay them enough to want to enlist. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/15 "2017-03-06T13:38:26Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Sweden is a house full of problems these days. Russians on the outside they want to talk about and tremendous pillage and rape issues on the inside that they don’t want to talk about. Remember that Sweden carries out rape statistics in a different way than other countries. Their definition of rape is much wider than that of other countries, and they count each offense separately, which means that what other countries would count as “one” instance of rape in Sweden may well be counted as “five”. Comparisons with other countries are bound to be meaningless unless those differences in the way statistics are calculated are taken into account. As to “pillage issues”… Honestly, I do not know what you are talking about. At least, in my experience having been to Sweden and with my contacts there… No particularly bad “pillage issues” that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/16 "2017-03-06T14:51:18Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If the question is “Why?” the answer is usually “Money.” It’s probably way cheaper to draft a few thousand people than to pay them enough to want to enlist. The problem is that you will get MUCH less motivated people. No, you should not join the army for money, but imagine being forced into it for poor pay. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/17 "2017-03-06T15:08:53Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The problem is that you will get MUCH less motivated people. > > No, you should not join the army for money, but imagine being forced into it for poor pay. I’m sure it’s a gamble of sorts; we’ll have more, but less motivated draftees. And after a few years, more trained former draftees who can be called back to service in case of emergency. And all on the cheap! It’s really a smart move for a country that aims to stay neutral and relatively peaceful, with the only downside being that during peacetime, the draftees are going to be less motivated and less useful than a volunteer. I suspect however, if the Russians make their way through Finland or make amphibious landings on the Swedish coast, those draftees will be plenty motivated to defend home and hearth. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/18 "2017-03-06T15:25:37Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Remember that Sweden carries out rape statistics in a different way than other countries. Their definition of rape is much wider than that of other countries, and they count each offense separately, which means that what other countries would count as “one” instance of rape in Sweden may well be counted as “five”. Comparisons with other countries are bound to be meaningless unless those differences in the way statistics are calculated are taken into account. > > As to “pillage issues”… Honestly, I do not know what you are talking about. At least, in my experience having been to Sweden and with my contacts there… No particularly bad “pillage issues” that I know of. The issue has been debunked so many times that at this point anyone who makes those claims it isn’t receptive to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/19 "2017-03-06T16:20:11Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Meh, we had conscription the entire last century, so it’s nothing new. It’s just that after the cold war ended the number of people drafted kept getting lower and lower until some people started asking ‘Why are we doing it?’. > Well, after this little failed experiment, those people finally realized what other people were saying when subject was being debated: We don’t have the population needed to recruit on a completely voluntary basis. > > Keep in mind conscription will be nowhere near the level it was during the cold war(35k in 1995, 7k in 2009, and now they’re talking about 4k per year), so it’s not like they’ll be drafting everyone they possibly can. Okay that’s good, they should be okay then. They work for Elekta in Stockholm, Uppsala, and Linköping. I work for Elekta in Sunnyvale. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264/20 "2017-03-06T22:47:41Z")
It has only been since 2010, that Sweden suspended required military service. It had been a tradition of their society for over a century. I highly doubt reintroducing it after a 7 year hiatus will have a significant impact on their culture. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-to-reinstate-conscription/781264.md?page=2)