# Swift Boat Vets Site - seems phony **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 27, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871 "2004-08-27T23:31:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/1 "2004-08-27T23:31:10Z")
Well with a thread title like that, you can see why I started this in the Pit. Their site (I won’t bother posting the URL) seems incredibly one-sided. There are absolutely NO dissenting opinions. Everyone hates Kerry and loves Dubya. Every posting about Kerry is 100% negative. It seems to have a huge membership but I’m wondering if some of that is just being made up. After all, one person working in their basement could come up with a website that seems to be outrageously popular but its “membership” consists of a couple of thousand of hotmail accounts. I see from another posting that a Bush crony is connected with the swift boat website: > **[This just in: Bush's lawyer is a slimeball](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273016)** > > Benjamin Ginsberg, chief “outside counsel” (whatever the fuck that means) to BushCheney04 resigned today because of his connection to the Not So Swift Boat Veterans for Smear. In a tone of weaselly defensiveness, he had this to say in the New York... Well, if you think I’m wrong feel free to pounce away. I asked for it. Hey this is the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/2 "2004-08-27T23:58:01Z")
From what I’ve read, the guy that started the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth group, John E. O’Neill, seems to be motivated not so much by love of G.W. – he voted for Perot in 1996 and Al Gore in 2000 – as by a blind hatred of John Kerry. And it’s apparently a long-standing grudge: he first heard Kerry’s _Vietnam Veterans Against the War_ testimony to Congress while laid up in a hospital, and was furious at Kerry’s allegations of atrocities perpetrated by American troops. He wrangled his way on to the Dick Cavett show in 1971 to debate Kerry, wearing, he says, the only suit he owned and paying his own travel expenses to get there. Now, the rest of the group may well be Bush partisans and shills - who knows - but his guy doesn’t seem to be a fan of Bush so much as an enemy of Kerry. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/3 "2004-08-28T00:30:59Z")
I think that’s pretty accurate. I also think that such men as these are both misguided and exploited. Misguided in that they blame Kerry for speaking the unpleasant truth, a truth that reflects dishonor upon them. But their ire is misplaced, the men they _should_ be angry with are the creeps who committed the acts and the cowardly slime that covered it up. The exploitation part speaks for itself. We shouldn’t blame the truth-tellers, but of course we frequently do. And that is bad enough. But the people who seek to exploit Kerry’s courage in speaking truth to power, and to turn it against him are cynical, power grubbing swine. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/4 "2004-08-28T00:46:19Z")
I lurked there for a while. The moderators there are pretty aggressive in shutting down and deleting anything that diverges from the party line. Lots of bannings. I will not go back after reading a poster saying he supports GWB because of his plans and efforts in killing a lot of Arabs. I’ve half a mind to copy/paste the post though and start a GD thread “How common is this attitude.” Because it is a silent constituency for Bush. The size of which may have a bearing on the election. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/5 "2004-08-28T01:17:51Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > I’ve half a mind to copy/paste the post though and start a GD thread “How common is this attitude.” Because it is a silent constituency for Bush. The size of which may have a bearing on the election. Is it really that silent of an attitude? I don’t think so. I’ve heard enough of this crap from people, and I live in one of the most liberal places in the U.S. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/6 "2004-08-28T02:30:25Z")
It struck me as an interesting insight into the mindset of one of those “end of the world” groups, and what it must be like sitting in their midst as the deadline for the end of the world comes and passes, and the evidence for their being completely wrong becomes an overwhelming flood. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/7 "2004-08-28T05:49:06Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Is it really that silent of an attitude? I don’t think so. I’ve heard enough of this crap from people, and I live in one of the most liberal places in the U.S. > > Sam Just to be clear, I wasn’t exaggerating the opinion expressed _at all_. Although I often do exaggerate to make a point, not this time. I don’t live in or post from the US. So my communication with US-minded people is through message boards and the major newspapers. The attitude in question isn’t frequently committed to writing in those. So maybe those of you who live there come across is more often, mixing with the people and all. You know, my curiosity is piqued because it is not an attitude that gets much airing in the reputable press or polite company. Not many or any, US newpapers are prepared to canvas how common that attitude is. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/8 "2004-08-28T06:23:08Z")
What plenty of money gets: [http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious\_murders/famous/simpson/siege\_11.html?sect=7](http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/simpson/siege_11.html?sect=7) > [@](#): > > Patrick James McKenna was a private detective hired to assist the other investigators working with Simpson’s defense team. Through a contact, he discovered the existence of tape recordings held by a woman called Laura Hart McKinney, who worked as a professor at the North Carolina School of Arts. > > The recordings had been made over a period of six months, ten years previously, when McKinney lived and worked in Los Angeles. There, she had done a lot of journalistic work revealing racism and sexism in the LAPD She had met Mark Fuhrman one evening at Alice’s Restaurant in Westwood and struck up a friendship with him. She was intending to use the tapes as a basis for a screenplay she was writing called Men Against Women. > > According to Fuhrman, the tapes were purely a work of fiction, in which he was assuming a character for the screenplay. On at least 41 occasions throughout the tapes, Fuhrman had used the word “nigger.” > > … > > The LAPD’s internal affairs division spent six months interviewing people who were arrested by Fuhrman, as well as current and former prosecutors who handled the cases. Many of those interviewed were minorities, and many had nothing but praise for the way Fuhrman had acted. The internal investigation carried out by the police was launched to determine whether Fuhrman’s claims were true or exaggerations intended to impress his interviewer, Laura McKinney. They found nothing to substantiate any of the statements he had made on the tapes. > > But in the courtroom, the damage had been well and truly done. Money made the difference… Money talks, OJ walks. And Mark Fuhrman’s credibility was in the toilet. In today’s case, money is giving the swift flip-floppers a platform for their lies and innuendo; and they are passing it as a valid issue while the confirmed evidence on the side of Kerry, is given the same weight in the mainstream media! As if those positions are somehow equal! The right is controlling the discussion by making the lies of one position to have the same weight of the truth of the other position, the resulting “fair” action of the mainstream media is to give a lot of time to false positions, and people then are misled, not all of them, but enough of them are, so the right then gets enough votes to squeak by. Once money and book and movie offers enter the picture, memories do tend to become “creative”, and people who were friendly before, (several swifters are on record of praising Kerry until he got the nomination) now turn to backstabbers for fiction’s sake. The shameful thing is, that is not for king and country, but for Mammon and partisanship. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/9 "2004-08-28T13:36:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The shameful thing is, that is not for king and country, but for Mammon and partisanship. Except none of what you said applies to SBVFT Mr. O’Neill, who launched his crusade against Mr. Kerry in 1971, long before there was any money involved, and who was not then nor is now a partisan, having supported Republican opponents in the previous two elections. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/10 "2004-08-28T14:42:26Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Well with a thread title like that, you can see why I started this in the Pit. > Their site (I won’t bother posting the URL) seems incredibly one-sided. > There are absolutely NO dissenting opinions. Everyone hates Kerry and loves Dubya. > Every posting about Kerry is 100% negative. > It seems to have a huge membership but I’m wondering if some of that is just being made up. > After all, one person working in their basement could come up with a website that seems to be outrageously popular but its “membership” consists of a couple of thousand of hotmail accounts. > > I see from another posting that a Bush crony is connected with the swift boat website: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273016](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273016) > > Well, if you think I’m wrong feel free to pounce away. I asked for it. Hey this is the Pit. Except that you haven’t shown any reason why it’s phony, or even what you mean by that. In fact, it is your OP that seems rather phony, in the sense of American Heritage definition 3a: Insincere or hypocritical. For example, you open with a disingenuous, almost RTFirefly sort of disclaimer, saying that you’re putting this in the Pit because the thread title compels it. I suppose you are hoping that it will occur to no one that you _composed_ the title that compelled you… Then, on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, you omit even so much as a link to the site that you’re criticizing, as though you are shielding the eyes of children from a pornographic image, rather than holding a sincere discussion with adults capable of thinking for themselves. The site, incidentally, is [SwiftVets.com](http://www.swiftvets.com/). Then, you lament that there are no dissenters, that everyone loves Bush but hates Kerry, except that in your lamentation, you mangled one name but not the other — just in case you thought you had concealed your own bias while accusing others of having biases. You note that everything there favors Bush over Kerry. Of course, that criterion would make [John Kerry’s own site](http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html) phony. Finally, you raise a _suspicion_ as though it were an _assertion_, and ponder whether the site is not the work of some lone madman in a basement, whose membership is a few thousand free e-mail accounts, apparently blind to the irony of how closely your description matched the description of a much more familiar site — one which you then invoked, in a self-referential vortex, to support your suspicion. But your self-reference amounted to nothing more than a guilt-by-association accusation. As you say, you asked for it. Phony is as phony does. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/11 "2004-08-28T18:44:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Except none of what you said applies to SBVFT Mr. O’Neill, who launched his crusade against Mr. Kerry in 1971, long before there was any money involved, and who was not then nor is now a partisan, having supported Republican opponents in the previous two elections. > > Right? Wrong, and I am begining to lose respect of anyone that has ignored the Nixon tapes: [http://www.pandagon.net/mtarchives/003260.html](http://www.pandagon.net/mtarchives/003260.html) > [@](#): > > Not Just A Lie > As it turns out, a Vietnam vet named John keeps changing his story about when and where he was in Cambodia. He’s not running for President, however. > > In 1971, John O’Neill told the president that he was in Cambodia. > > O’Neill said no one could cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O’Neill said precisely the opposite to then President Richard Nixon. > > “O’NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water. > > NIXON: In a swift boat? > > O’NEILL: Yes, sir.” > But the story doesn’t stop there. O’Neill’s been trying to explain why he told the president that he did something that supposedly couldn’t have been done. > > Well, it’s because he wasn’t actually in the country, obviously. Where was he? > > “In an interview with The Associated Press on Wednesday, O’Neill did not dispute what he said to Nixon, but insisted he was never actually in Cambodia. > “I think I made it very clear that I was on the border, which is exactly where I was for three months. I was about 100 yards from Cambodia,” O’Neill said in clarifying the June 16, 1971, conversation with Nixon.” > Oh, well that makes it perfe- > > “In an interview Sunday on ABC’s “This Week” O’Neill said: “Our boats didn’t go north of, only slightly north of Sedek,” which he said was about 50 miles from the Cambodian border.” > > Huh? Maybe he was talking about metric yards? IIRC, the context of the O’Neill meeting Nixon was to collude with Tricky Dick against Kerry and other veterans against the war. You could not get more partisan than that. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/12 "2004-08-28T20:03:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > From what I’ve read, the guy that started the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth group, John E. O’Neill, seems to be motivated not so much by love of G.W. – he voted for Perot in 1996 and Al Gore in 2000 – as by a blind hatred of John Kerry. Oh god, another person duped by [John “Life-Long Democrat” O’Neill](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269680&page=5). The money trail shows he’s lying about his votes, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/13 "2004-08-28T22:17:48Z")
If O’Neill was in it for the money, why would he be donating his share of the proceeds from “Unfit for Command” to charity? That book is going to sell at least a million copies. His share of the profits will probably amount to a million bucks or more, and he’s giving it all to veteran’s charities. He’s also the main partner in a huge law firm, so I don’t think he’s doing this for the cash. You guys just can’t accept the fact that the swiftvets are for real. They are honorable military people who believe that John Kerry has unfairly maligned them and that he has misrepresented his military service, and they are seeking to set the record straight. Now, they may be wrong about some details. They are clearly correct about others. The fog of war may explain some differences of opinion on what happened, but they believe strongly that they are correct. They aren’t Karl Rove’s minions. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/14 "2004-08-28T22:30:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh god, another person duped by John “Life-Long Democrat” O’Neill. The money trail shows he’s lying about his votes, too. No, it doesn’t. O’Neill says people aren’t looking in the right place. The money he gave to Democrats wasn’t for federal races, but for Houston city politics. Therefore, the records aren’t in the FEC database. I can’t find the article now, but he gave an interview to the Wall Street Journal last week, and he named the politicians he had given money to, and invited the reporter to go to the Houston election records and look it up for himself. $25,000. He also says he was supporting Edwards in this election, and that if Kerry dropped out he would support Edwards over Bush. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/15 "2004-08-28T22:31:50Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Now, they may be wrong about some details. They are clearly correct about others. The fog of war may explain some differences of opinion on what happened, but they believe strongly that they are correct. They aren’t Karl Rove’s minions. Like even a Butthead said: “You can’t polish a turd, Beavis.” Revealing the partisanship and hatred for Kerry points to big axes to grind the swiffters have against Kerry. That is real enough, it has nothing to do with their attacks being the truth, and since this flap started, even MORE evidence has appeared against the swifters. You are constantly ignoring that, I only see you getting deeper in their shit. Stop digging. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/16 "2004-08-28T22:53:03Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > I lurked there for a while. > > The moderators there are pretty aggressive in shutting down and deleting anything that diverges from the party line. Lots of bannings. From a sticky over there: "Admin note: Until further notice, any further exploration or development of this line of inquiry or the reproduction of any material associated with this line of inquiry is prohibited within this forum. Thanks in advance for your cooperation. Admin" It’s about the Kerry/Alston relationship whatever that is. Can’t even talk about it though. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/17 "2004-08-28T23:46:48Z")
Chicago Sun-Times: [Plot Thickens After Checking Records](http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips27.html) > [@](#): > > In the midst of the controversy between the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and Kerry campaign representatives about Kerry’s service in Vietnam, new questions have arisen. > > The Kerry campaign has repeatedly stated that the official naval records prove the truth of Kerry’s assertions about his service. > > But the official records on Kerry’s Web site only add to the confusion. The DD214 form, an official Defense Department document summarizing Kerry’s military career posted on [johnkerry.com](http://johnkerry.com), includes a “Silver Star with combat V.” > > But according to a U.S. Navy spokesman, “Kerry’s record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a ‘combat V’ to anyone for a Silver Star.” > > Naval regulations do not allow for the use of a “combat V” for the Silver Star, the third-highest decoration the Navy awards. None of the other services has ever granted a Silver Star “combat V,” either. > … > Kerry’s Web site also lists two different citations for the Silver Star. One was issued by the commander in chief of the Pacific Command (CINCPAC), Adm. John Hyland. The other, issued by Secretary of the Navy John Lehman during the Reagan administration, contained some revisions and additional language. “By his brave actions, bold initiative, and unwavering devotion to duty, Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry reflected great credit upon himself… .” > … > > **94 pages of records unreleased?** > > Reporting by the Washington Post’s Michael Dobbs points out that although the Kerry campaign insists that it has released Kerry’s full military records, the Post was only able to get six pages of records under its Freedom of Information Act request out of the “at least a hundred pages” a Naval Personnel Office spokesman called the “full file.” > > What could that more than 100 pages contain? Questions have been raised about President Bush’s drill attendance in the reserves, but Bush received his honorable discharge on schedule. **Kerry, who should have been discharged from the Navy about the same time – July 1, 1972 – wasn’t given the discharge he has on his campaign Web site until July 13, 1978.** What delayed the discharge for six years? \*\*This raises serious questions about Kerry’s performance while in the reserves that are far more potentially damaging than those raised against Bush. \*\* So… Everyone went ape about a missing few weeks in Bush’s guard records, but Kerry’s record is missing six years, and he was discharged late. And he has three different, Silver Star citations on record, each one showing increasingly glowing language and the last one showing a ‘Combat V’ which does not exist. That was was apparently Signed by John Lehman. But wait! The next day, the Sun-Times posted this: [Kerry Citation a ‘Total Mystery’ to Ex-Navy Chief](http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips28.html) > [@](#): > > Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry’s campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman’s signature. > > “It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/18 "2004-08-29T00:24:51Z")
Moving the goal posts **Sam** , and even granting you that point, there is very little there to discredit Kerry, There is even more to discredit O’neill: > **[John O'Neill is a GOP hack](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2004/4/21/25170/-)** > > Who is John O'Neill? The guy who has been blasting Kerry's war service all over the cable news networks. "I saw some war heroes ... John Kerry is not a war hero," said John O'Neill, a Houston lawye... > **[Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines](https://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=%2Fucas%2F20040829%2Fcm_ucas%2Fbushcampaignprofitsfromvetsslimyattacksonkerry)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo! News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. > [@](#): > > Currently a darling of the right-wing talk show circuit, O’Neill has insisted in repeated interviews that Kerry could not have been in Cambodia during the war, as Kerry has said. In his book, O’Neill wrote: “Kerry was never in Cambodia during Christmas 1968, or at all during the Vietnam War,” adding, he “would have been court-martialed had he gone there.” > But days ago, reporters unearthed taped conversations between Nixon and O’Neill, in which O’Neill bragged, “I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.” > Was O’Neill court-martialed? Apparently not. Did he so much as pause after being caught contradicting himself? Not on your life. He just moved from interviews with legitimate news reporters to the friendlier zones of hacks such as Sean Hannity, who would not press him on his mendacity. > Neither O’Neill nor his band of liars is humiliated when one of their accusations blows up in their faces. In a recent attack ad, for example, George Elliott, Kerry’s commanding officer in Vietnam, insisted that Kerry “has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam.” This is the same Elliott who praised Kerry’s courage and leadership profusely during the war, according to military records, and who campaigned for Kerry’s re-election to the U.S. Senate. > He and the other veterans against Kerry apparently believe that truth doesn’t matter; if they just keep throwing slime at Kerry, sooner or later, some will stick. Well, if doubts on that valor citation, is the only thing they can pin on Kerry, bring it on I say, the incoherence of swifters and supporters of them make them look like the fools they are. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/19 "2004-08-29T01:36:44Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Oh god, another person duped by [John “Life-Long Democrat” O’Neill](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269680&page=5). The money trail shows he’s lying about his votes, too. That’s pretty compelling evidence. Even if it turns out that he also gave money to Democrats, those are hefty contributions to the GOP side. Of course, if he says he voted for Perot in 1996, that doesn’t exactly make him a life-long Democrat, either. But I agree that this information considerably weakens the “I’m not remotely a partisan” stance. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871/20 "2004-08-29T01:59:31Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > You guys just can’t accept the fact that the swiftvets are for real. They are honorable military people who believe that John Kerry has unfairly maligned them and that he has misrepresented his military service, and they are seeking to set the record straight. Oh _there_ you are, **Sam**! I wondered where you’d slunk off to after you were handed your ass on a silver platter in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269680) on the very same subject. Guess you found a bright, shiny new place to pretend you’re being objective on this issue. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Now, they may be wrong about some details. They are clearly correct about others. Oops. Nevermind. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swift-boat-vets-site-seems-phony/261871.md?page=2)