# Swiftboating John Murtha **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2006, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967 "2006-01-14T15:52:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/21 "2006-01-14T21:23:54Z")
> [@](#): > > “In the first incident, **his right cheek was lacerated** , and in the second, **he was lacerated above his left eye**. Neither injury required evacuation,” the Post-Gazette reported. > > But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries. > > “I was \*\*wounded in the arm with shrapnel \*\* from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, \*\*my knee was banged up \*\* and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet,” Murtha told the Herald-Standard. > > A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha’s injuries involved his being **“struck in the ankle”** by a “shot that ricocheted off the helicopter.” I think that when we see the official medical reports as certified by Dr. John Watson, we’ll find out that it was a Jezail bullet. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/22 "2006-01-14T21:37:46Z")
The tradition of citing military service, especially combat service, when seeking public office is ages old, as is the specific citing of meritorious awards. The criteria for receiving a Purple Heart award are somewhat ambiguous, but do not require that the recipients actions were necessarily heroic, nor life threatening. I served three separate tours of duty in VN and I have no Purple Heart award, although I can recall at least two occasions where I could have been considered for the award if I had called attention to my injuries. I personally knew others, whose injuries were no worse than mine, who did receive Purple Heart awards. While many have lost their lives in combat and the Purple Heart was the highest award they received, there are many others who received the award for relatively minor injuries. Meritorious awards are often career enhancing and this certainly is a factor in some being sought out, both by the recipients and their superior officers. I had a close friend who was wounded in his gluteus maximus by a splinter of wood, probably caused by shrapnel striking the outhouse he was occupying. He was awarded a purple heart for the incident and, for years afterward, I frequently chided him about it, in friendly camaraderie. Serving in a combat area is an experience unto itself and can legitimately be cited as the measure of an individuals worth to society. No matter who instigates these personal attacks, or what their motives might be, I find the scurrilous and cowardly. [http://www.usmcvta.org/pheart/phcriteria.htm](http://www.usmcvta.org/pheart/phcriteria.htm) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/23 "2006-01-14T22:30:11Z")
As much as I think this kind of stuff is despicable, I do think politicians like Kerry (and their poitical parties) set themselves up for an attack when they make such a big deal about their status as a veteran, and the medals they’ve won. I never really heard of Murtha before he became famous for his Iraq statements recently, so I have no idea whether he blantantly politicized his miitary servicel like Kerry did. Somehow he doesn’t strike me as that kind of guy, so I’d be pretty surprised if he did. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/24 "2006-01-15T00:42:07Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Acording to the article, the principle critic of Murtha is a Pennsylvania Democrat, and has been saying this for decades. How does that make him a “Cocksucking conservative”? And why is it that you find this story objectionable, yet lead the charge to criticize Bush over his record in the National Guard? Well, basically, the story was created in the last week by a right-wing second tier news service using quotations that are 10, 11, 15, and more than 20 years old. This is not a new attack by a bi-partisan collection of concerned citizens, but a recent right-wing attack using ancient political fights for ammunition. That does not make Murtha a hero, nor does it make the news service a group of liars. However, it is pretty clear that this particular story originated recently from a group with a right-wing political position. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/25 "2006-01-15T02:04:29Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > As much as I think this kind of stuff is despicable, I do think politicians like Kerry (and their poitical parties) set themselves up for an attack when they make such a big deal about their status as a veteran, and the medals they’ve won. > > I never really heard of Murtha before he became famous for his Iraq statements recently, so I have no idea whether he blantantly politicized his miitary servicel like Kerry did. Somehow he doesn’t strike me as that kind of guy, so I’d be pretty surprised if he did. Well I had last heard of Murtha in that early 1980s scandal that saw like 8 members of congress (I think 7 congressmen and 1 Senator) either resign or be ejected by the House due to accepting bribes, and Murtha was suspected of being involved but nothing was ever proven. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/26 "2006-01-15T02:42:59Z")
I’m sure I read his name in reports about that scandal, but it didn’t stick. If someone can dig up cites that prove he politicized his war record, then I won’t feel too sorry for him. I think all the talk about his war record that I’ve heard is other people using it for their own advantage. Like: Hey, that Murtha guy is right. And he’s a war hero, so he should know! ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/27 "2006-01-15T03:52:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > As much as I think this kind of stuff is despicable, I do think politicians like Kerry (and their poitical parties) set themselves up for an attack when they make such a big deal about their status as a veteran, and the medals they’ve won. If you mean they set themselves up for an honest inquiry into their military records…maybe. If you mean set themselves up for dishonest, partisan lies, innuendos and bullshit… then we disagree. And how do you feel about inquiries into Bush’s military record (or lack thereof)? Fair game? ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/28 "2006-01-15T04:02:53Z")
Something unsubstantiated but juicy from the [Huffington Post](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/01/12/bush-admin-launched-secr_n_13713.html). _The Huffington Post has learned the Bush administration recently asked high ranking military leaders to denounce Congressman John Murtha. Congressman Murtha has called for the Bush Administration to withdraw US troops from Iraq. The Bush Administration first attacked Rep. Murtha for his Iraq views by associating him with the filmmaker Michael Moore and Representative Jean Schmidt likened him to a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives. When those tactics backfired, Dick Cheney called Murtha “A good man, a marine, a patriot and he’s taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion.” Though the White House has backed off publicly, administration officials have nevertheless recently made calls to military leaders to condemn the congressman. So far they have refused._ This reminds me a lot of the smear campaign going against John McCain in the primaries, which accused him of being a) a traitor who collaborated with the Vietnamese b) a “Manchurian Candidate” c) fraudulently awarded his medals and/or d) mentally unstable due to his time as a POW. The first three were pretty much solely sourced to[Ted Sampley](http://www.miafacts.org/mccain.htm), a POW/MIA activist with a longstanding grudge against McCain (and Kerry). Sampley had been a fringe character making his charges for years until the 2000 Rep. primary campaign started heating up. Then these stories all of a sudden startinng appearing frequently and uncritically in conservative media outlets and internet sets, with [CNS](http://www.cnsnews.com/Commentary/Archive/1998-2000/OPI20000104a.html) leading the charge. Then, as now, defenders insisted that there must be something to the charges since they originated outside conservative/Republican circles, so it was wrong to characterize them as politically-motivated smears. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/29 "2006-01-15T05:28:49Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I’m suggesting that it is incumbent upon those making such allegations to come up with facts in the first fucking place. This idea that conservatives making such charges were due the benefit of the doubt, or that a wait and see attitude was appropriate, was ass-fucked when the Swiftboaters burned that bridge. They made all the same noise, alleging all the same things, and it all turned out to be false. Show me something or fuck off. I don’t understand what the “swiftboaters” have to do with this. Are they the same ones making this charge? Who are they? And why do I have to “fuck off”, exactly? You’re upset that people are calling into question Murtha, someone or someone whose message you like. I like the guy and his message, like you, so why exactly am I fucking off? Because I dare to question you when you want to make a pissy litte rant and drag all conservatives and Republicans into it? > [@](#): > > Or do you support the Republican tactic of besmirching veteran’s records without evidence when they disagree with that veteran? That’s a tactic exclusive to Republicans and used by all Republicans, everywhere? On second thought, it looks like you just wanted to blow off steam, rather than actually have a logical or factual point. Your posts appear the equivalent of a drunk throwing punches in a pub at everyone at the bar, so just don’t bother responding to me, because…well, as they say, “bored now”. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/30 "2006-01-15T06:05:09Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > I think that when we see the official medical reports as certified by Dr. John Watson, we’ll find out that it was a Jezail bullet. Ooh, ooh, I just read _The Adventure of the Noble Bachelor_ last night! I think I’m going to disagree with where you’re going with this, but I just thought I’d mention that I got the allusion. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/31 "2006-01-15T07:43:17Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > And why do I have to “fuck off”, exactly? You don’t. They do. They are the ones who have to show me something or fuck off. Don’t take this personally unless you also happen to be Marc Marano, or his handlers or puppet masters. > [@](#): > > Because I dare to question you when you want to make a pissy litte rant and drag all conservatives and Republicans into it? Thought I made it perfectly clear which Republicans could go fuck themselves. > [@](#): > > On second thought, it looks like you just wanted to blow off steam, rather than actually have a logical or factual point. Not exactly. I wanted to call everyone’s attention to an effort to Swiftboat another veteran as soon as possible. The best disinfectant being light, supposedly. I wanted to argue that, while folks might generally take a “let’s wait and see what they’ve got” attitude, it is not appropriate to allow such bullshit to stand, because time is exactly what this tactic is employed for. Time away from other issues, time settling into people’s minds. > [@](#): > > Your posts appear the equivalent of a drunk throwing punches in a pub at everyone at the bar, so just don’t bother responding to me, because…well, as they say, “bored now”. Oops. Too late. But I did need to point out the implied “They” in my “fuck off,” which you so wanted to be about you. However, I thank you for making such logical points in your “argument” here. Boy am I mortified. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/32 "2006-01-15T16:29:48Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > If you mean they set themselves up for an honest inquiry into their military records…maybe. If you mean set themselves up for dishonest, partisan lies, innuendos and bullshit… then we disagree. No, I don’t mean dishonesty or lies. But innuendoes… that depends. If a guy keeps saying (or implying) that he was a “War Hero”, he sets himself up for his opennent to say otherwise. There isn’t any universal definition of who is and who isn’t a hero. But I don’t think this quibbling about medals has any place in politics. It makes the complainer look bad to me, not the guy he’s complaining about. > [@](#): > > And how do you feel about inquiries into Bush’s military record (or lack thereof)? Fair game? I don’t think Bush ever used his military record to pump up his political street cred, and it’s probably obvious why he didn’t. I don’t really have any feelings one way or another about inquiries into his military record (or lack thereof), though. Personally, I think it was so long ago, and he was so young, that it doesn’t matter much to me. I was old enough during that time to know what many, many guys did to avoid going to Vietnam. I probably would’ve done the same had I been a few years older. But politics is a dirty game, and if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Is it fair game? I don’t see why not. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/33 "2006-01-15T17:06:20Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Ooh, ooh, I just read _The Adventure of the Noble Bachelor_ last night! I think I’m going to disagree with where you’re going with this, but I just thought I’d mention that I got the allusion. Not going anywhere with it, just being a wiseass. It just reminded me of the contradictions in Watson’s accounts. I’m not giving it a lot of credence just yet, unless/until a less biased news source can verify. Actually, I like Murtha and admire his courage in standing up and saying what he said. And I am ticked (but not surprised) that his dissenting view would bring about a smear campaign. I really don’t have a problem with Senators and Congressmen/women bringing their military records into public view. It is no different than a person with a managerial background running for office, claiming that it gives them executive experience. Military service is just as valid as any political experience that they may also have. Their political office could bring them into committees where they vote on military appropriations, and I think that it is pertinent information for voters. I give them enormous credit and respect for giving years of their life, and putting their lives in danger in order to serve and protect. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/34 "2006-01-15T20:15:53Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I’ve yet to see any evidence this is an official Republican tactic. Sure, the Swift Boat Veterans were republicans but they weren’t elected officials in the Republican party, their actions weren’t controlled by the RNC and et cetera. Of COURSE they weren’t. Not at all. Not even a little bit. Totally unconnected. Are you so fucking stupid as to believe that? Seriously, I’d love to see an answer. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/35 "2006-01-15T20:34:08Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > Sure, the Swift Boat Veterans were republicans but they weren’t elected officials in the Republican party, their actions weren’t controlled by the RNC and et cetera. The following is a “throw enough mud at the wall and see how much sticks” web page: [Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Republican Connection](http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth_Republican_Connection). However, some of it does stick: [quote] [ul][li] Bob Perry - Largest Republican donor in Texas; donated hundreds of thousands to Bush family campaigns; donated at least $200,000 in seed money to the Swift Boat Vets for Bush; close colleague of Rove in Texas governor’s race; longtime friend of John O’Neill. [/li][li] Harlan Crow - Bush Foundation trustee; [7] ([http://www.georgebushfoundation.org/bush/asp/OverView/Trustees.asp](http://www.georgebushfoundation.org/bush/asp/OverView/Trustees.asp)) longtime friend of Bush family; longtime fundraiser for Bush family; donated at least $25,000 in seed money to the Swift Boat Vets for Bush.[/li][li] John O’Neill - Longtime friend of Bob Perry; very close law firm connections to Bush as governor; close friend to Spaeth, former colleague to Spaeth’s husband/Bush’s 1994 running mate; front man for Swift Vets for Bush.[/li][li] Merrie Spaeth - Provided media consulting to Swift Boat Vets; longtime friend of Hutchison; longtime supporter of/donor to Bush campaign; provide debate prep for GHW Bush; met with and gave media training to current, top White House officials; close associate to John O’Neill; advised smear campaign on McCain in 2000. [/li][li] Kay Bailey Hutchison - Longtime friend of Spaeth; former client of Rove; current co-chair of Bush campaign[/li][li] Bush-Cheney Campaign HQ Florida - Regional Bush HQ in battleground state; coordinated activities with Swift Boat Vets for Bush rally; rally forced to be cancelled. [/li][li] Minnesota RNC - Official Republican website in battleground state; coordinated linkage with Swift Boat website, providing direct link to Swift Boat commercial.[/ul] [/li][/quote] The Swift Boat/RNC connection (which was pretty real, even if they have plausible deniability that neither group took orders from the other) does not mean that the current attacks on Murtha are being organized by the RNC. They are, however, being organized by right wing groups and it would be interesting to see whether there is the same sort of “plausible deniability” between the RNC and the current groups. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/36 "2006-01-15T21:00:02Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Are you so fucking stupid as to believe that? Seriously, I’d love to see an answer. The answer is yes. Oh, you mean from him? Well, never mind then. ---
**Author:** ![Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ink_a_dink_a_dink)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/37 "2006-01-15T21:26:20Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > As it is, honestly I think people like Murtha and Kerry got what they deserved. I’m a veteran myself and personally I would never use my service record to try and make it appear I’m specially equipped (in preference over civilian politicians) to talk about or debate strategic-level, national military policies. I strongly believe in a **civilian** government with **civilian** control of the military. I tend to find it a little distasteful when _any_ veteran starts touting his own personal experience as making him more qualified to talk about some military matter than a civilian. That should never be the case, our country was designed so that civilians had oversight of the military. > > And I say this even about politicians who I strongly support, like John McCain for example. > > Personally the only time I think it would be acceptable for someone to use their service record in politicis would be if the person was running for office and was a career military officer and didn’t have much else on his resume. Obviously someone like Wesley Clark for example would find it prudent to use his service record as proof that he’s had advanced leadership experience at a very high level. > > But at the lower levels of the military where guys like Murtha, McCain, and Kerry served, their experiences really don’t give them any special authority on leading a country **or** conducting a war. Ask a general like Powell or Clark how much credence they would give to the opinions of a 1st lieutenant or a private on conducting a large scale military operation; the answer would be little to none. Sorry to quote so much, but I found a lot of value in this statement. I guess the whole “civilian government” with “civilian” control of the military was something I hadn’t given much thought to, but I do believe that’s an important thing to consider. So thank you for opening my eyes and making me remember that. However, isn’t it also incumbent upon us to remember that a 1st Lieutenant or a private are the ones on the front line and know how bad things can be, and perhaps that may give said representative or potential leader pause to think of several things, one of which being if our young men and women in the service should be in a situation like that - if the cause they would be fighting for would be worth the memories they would bear for the rest of their lifetime? Don’t get me wrong - there are situations where I believe military intervention is a good thing. But sometimes it takes a private to remind you that we’re just in a mess, from top to bottom, and it’s worse for those on the bottom than it is for those on the top that we see on the news feeds giving us the briefings. And I, for one, would never want to be one of those on the bottom, so Og bless those who hear the call of service, but I believe they deserve some clarity of thought and intention BEFORE they’re sent into a mess that WILL have repercussions on them for the rest of their lives. Just my unrequested $.02. Respectfully, Inky ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/38 "2006-01-15T21:58:30Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > No, I don’t mean dishonesty or lies. But innuendoes… that depends. If a guy keeps saying (or implying) that he was a “War Hero”, he sets himself up for his opennent to say otherwise. There isn’t any universal definition of who is and who isn’t a hero. Is there any evidence at all that Murtha implied or explicitly stated that he was a “War Hero”, or is this just a made-up claim by Republicans to provide a justification for attacking him? I can’t imagine anyone running (or winning) based on a platform of “I was a war hero”. ---
**Author:** ![chinaglenn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@chinaglenn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chinaglenn)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/39 "2006-01-15T22:11:56Z")
MURTHA for PRESIDENT 2008 President Murtha, a man of peace, but a defender therofm a man of sanity, an old voice for the future of our children, and the children of the World. Murtha should run against the wimps in his party and pulll the Republic into revion and common sense. MURTHA 2008. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967/40 "2006-01-15T22:22:27Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > I can’t imagine anyone running (or winning) based on a platform of “I was a war hero”. Eisenhower? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiftboating-john-murtha/339967.md?page=3)