# Swiss tourist gang-raped in India **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154 "2013-03-17T05:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/242 "2013-07-22T09:04:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Look, you can either act defensive, or you can acknowledge the problem and work to fix it. You can’t do both. quote from Senegoid’s post: > [@](#): > > As India has modernized and become more cosmopolitan, there has been increased awareness and sensitivity among much of the public, about how obnoxious this all is, according to more evolved Western standards. we(indians) look at whats right and whats wrong and what needs to be done. we dont look at how evolved or how primitive the western standards are. And how obnoxious or how better our standards are compared to them. i think this is what \*\*bldysbba \*\*is saying. ---
**Author:** ![StJoan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@StJoan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StJoan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/243 "2013-07-22T09:47:17Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Riiiight. Way to talk down to the brown skinned savages. Oh-fer-'eaven’s-sake! If you support a culture of misogyny to the extent that it eventually culminates in the acceptance of rape and female genocide, then you _ARE_ savages, whatever the color of your skin. Stop playing the race card when you are clearly in the wrong. If **bldysabba** and **truthseeker2** , are anything to go by, it is clear that Indians (irrespective of their color, caste and gender) have no desire to change their attitude towards women. It is obvious that the relatively fast and strong sentences handed out in cases like this have very little to do with a sense of justice or any sympathy for the victim – you lot are just desperate to salvage your country’s reputation after it took a beating in the international forum, post the events in Delhi last December, and you will go to any extent for that. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/244 "2013-07-22T10:50:51Z")
Hi **StJoan** , how are you? > [@StJoan](#): > > Oh-fer-'eaven’s-sake! If you support a culture of misogyny to the extent that it eventually culminates in the acceptance of rape and female genocide, then you _ARE_ savages, whatever the color of your skin. culture of rape - thats media’s imagination n thats false. India has much less per capita rapes cases - reported as well as non-reported(I have reasoning for this), compared to many countries including the US. Culture of misogyny- yes that is there. nobody here is supporting it. I believe we are more passionate abt ending it than you are. female genocide - you mean foeticide? yes, that also comes when we speak of misogyny. > [@](#): > > Stop playing the race card when you are clearly in the wrong. race=culture. someone else brought out culture while discussing rape and harsh sentencing. we just pointed that out. > [@](#): > > If **bldysabba** and **truthseeker2** , are anything to go by, it is clear that Indians (irrespective of their color, caste and gender) have no desire to change their attitude towards women. wont comment on myself, but **bldysabba’s** attitude and perspective is already correct(no change needed) and better than yours from what I’ve read in this thread. > [@](#): > > It is obvious that the relatively fast and strong sentences handed out in cases like this have very little to do with a sense of justice or any sympathy for the victim you misunderstood when we’ve written in understandable language. so not our fault. > [@](#): > > – you lot are just desperate to salvage your country’s reputation after it took a beating in the international forum, post the events in Delhi last December, and you will go to any extent for that. India doesnt need any certificate from anyone or any country. nobody here cares abt India reputation. you curse it for right reasons(politicians, misogyny, corruption etc) and I will also join in. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/245 "2013-07-22T11:22:09Z")
> [@StJoan](#): > > Oh-fer-'eaven’s-sake! If you support a culture of misogyny to the extent that it eventually culminates in the acceptance of rape and female genocide, then you _ARE_ savages, whatever the color of your skin. Stop playing the race card when you are clearly in the wrong. If **bldysabba** and **truthseeker2** , are anything to go by, it is clear that Indians (irrespective of their color, caste and gender) have no desire to change their attitude towards women. It is obvious that the relatively fast and strong sentences handed out in cases like this have very little to do with a sense of justice or any sympathy for the victim – you lot are just desperate to salvage your country’s reputation after it took a beating in the international forum, post the events in Delhi last December, and you will go to any extent for that. I’ll have you back up your slander with facts. Please cite the posts where I display an attitude towards women that “support a culture of misogyny to the extent that it eventually culminates in the acceptance of rape and female genocide”. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/246 "2013-07-22T11:25:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Look, you can either act defensive, or you can acknowledge the problem and work to fix it. You can’t do both. You too, please cite the posts where I’m being defensive. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/247 "2013-07-22T11:40:49Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Bear in mind also, if we are to believe the stories we’ve been reading, that: > > (a)\*\* Rape and other serious crimes against females have been an entrenched activity in India, and the culture has long been to tolerate that and look the other way;\*\* > > (b) There have been a string of high-profile highly publicized and highly heinous rapes in recent months. > > (c) These have cause much international embarassment to India and to the more evolved elements of the culture there. > > As India has modernized and become more cosmopolitan, **there has been increased awareness and sensitivity among much of the public, about how obnoxious this all is, according to more evolved Western standards.** > > Thus, it’s not too surprising that the society is cracking down on sexually predatory crimes, and handing out harsh sentences to make sure the word gets out. To clarify. This post is fucking obnoxious. That’s all I was pointing out. It implies strongly that India has an ingrained culture of rape and crime against women, and that somehow the only reason Indians despise that some of our countrymen commit such horrific acts is that a) some of us have reached some form of ‘evolved’ western morality(Steubenville anyone?) and (b) The rapes have been an international embarrassment. These are reprehensible implications. India has plenty of flaws, and many of them have to do with how we treat women. _Nobody is denying that._. But if you’re on board with the kind of smug, judgmental bullshit that Senegoid(disclaimer at the top not withstanding) has spewed here, then you don’t know anything about India beyond the sensationalist news articles that you’ve read, are not coming at this from a useful perspective, and are really not worth engaging with. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/248 "2013-07-22T12:08:43Z")
> [@StJoan](#): > > It is obvious that the relatively fast and strong sentences handed out in cases like this have very little to do with a sense of justice or any sympathy for the victim – you lot are just desperate to salvage your country’s reputation after it took a beating in the international forum, post the events in Delhi last December, and you will go to any extent for that. And I only now read this! Hahaha. What Senegoid only implied, you’re happily accusing Indians of doing. While you’re hunting for evidence of my misogyny, it’d be nice if you could back up this statement too. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/249 "2013-07-22T12:57:42Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > To clarify. This post is fucking obnoxious. That’s all I was pointing out. It implies strongly that India has an ingrained culture of rape and crime against women, and that somehow the only reason Indians despise that some of our countrymen commit such horrific acts is that a) some of us have reached some form of ‘evolved’ western morality(Steubenville anyone?) and (b) The rapes have been an international embarrassment. > > These are reprehensible implications. India has plenty of flaws, and many of them have to do with how we treat women. _Nobody is denying that._. But if you’re on board with the kind of smug, judgmental bullshit that Senegoid\*\*(disclaimer at the top not withstanding) \*\*has spewed here, then you don’t know anything about India beyond the sensationalist news articles that you’ve read, are not coming at this from a useful perspective, and are really not worth engaging with. Nice post. I hadn’t cared to reply because of the disclaimer at the top but of course, couldn’t have put it out as well comparing with the way you’ve done… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/250 "2013-07-22T14:03:55Z")
> [@StJoan](#): > > It is obvious that the relatively fast and strong sentences handed out in cases like this have very little to do with a sense of justice or any sympathy for the victim – you lot are just desperate to salvage your country’s reputation after it took a beating in the international forum, post the events in Delhi last December, and you will go to any extent for that. Why is it obvious, exactly? Is the median sentence for gang rape in Madhya Pradesh much lower? Do criminal trials in that state generally take longer? Or are you maybe just pulling this stuff out of your arse? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/251 "2013-07-22T14:09:05Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > backslash is there, What is that supposed to mean? > [@](#): > > hopefully you arent disturbed\annoyed by it. Generally, posters on this board are encouraged to use correct spelling, grammar, capitalization, punctuation, etc. So, yes, I am annoyed by it. I would encourage you – if you feel the need to use a slash – to use the correct one for the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/252 "2013-07-22T15:00:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why is it obvious, exactly? Is the median sentence for gang rape in Madhya Pradesh much lower? Do criminal trials in that state generally take longer? Or are you maybe just pulling this stuff out of your arse? While a review of the thread suggests that St. Joan is personally bitter about India, and is probably just being offensive for the heck of it, I think criminal trials in MP probably DO take longer than this one has. The judicial process in India is (in)famously slow and backlogged\*. However, that this case has been processed quickly STILL shouldn’t lead to the interpretation offered by St. Joan, unless one is determined to think badly of India and Indians(as St. Joan almost certainly is). Any number of reasons are possible - the massive domestic outrage and demonstrations over the earlier Delhi case led both the police and the judges to treat rape cases with greater importance, the criminals were easy to catch, evidence was easy to obtain, the defence lawyers sucked ass. But no. Obviously it can only about the image. \*IMO the unresponsive judicial system(especially at lower levels) and largely inept police are together the single biggest reform area that India should be tackling, and unfortunately no politician seems to want to. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/253 "2013-07-22T15:00:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What is that supposed to mean? > > Generally, posters on this board are encouraged to use correct spelling, grammar, capitalization, punctuation, etc. > > So, yes, I am annoyed by it. I would encourage you – if you feel the need to use a slash – to use the correct one for the purpose. Sure, I will try to do that. I now see that “/”(front slash) is used for “or”. I try to finish my post fast, only focus on getting the message across. Now that a couple of posters have talked about lack of capitalization, punctuation etc., I will try to address that. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/254 "2013-07-22T15:49:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Life imprisonment for gang rape? Not too harsh in my view. Agreed. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > When was the last time you heard of a petty, nonviolent rape? Well, date rape springs to mind - you know, the old school ‘put out or get out’ ride up to the local Lover’s Lookout. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/255 "2013-07-22T16:18:35Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Well, date rape springs to mind - you know, the old school ‘put out or get out’ ride up to the local Lover’s Lookout. And then he proceeds to bang away, leaving her in pain for days. Dunnow, it still counts as violence where I come from, even if it’s not at the same level as, say, a knife wound. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/256 "2013-07-22T16:36:58Z")
Even if it wasn’t violent, I wouldn’t call any rape “petty”. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/257 "2013-07-22T16:43:52Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > culture of rape - thats media’s imagination n thats false. India has much less per capita rapes cases - reported as well as non-reported(I have reasoning for this), compared to many countries including the US. You have reasoning for this, huh? Well, I’m convinced! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/258 "2013-07-22T17:05:37Z")
> [@colander](#): > > You have reasoning for this, huh? Well, I’m convinced! [The UN Crime Trends survey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Sexual_violence_against_children_and_rape_statistics) says he’s right. The per capita rate in India is 1/30th that of the US, and comparable with Japan. Even if you increase it by a factor of ten to account for underreporting it’s still better than most Western states. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/259 "2013-07-22T17:07:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [The UN Crime Trends survey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Sexual_violence_against_children_and_rape_statistics) says he’s right. The per capita rate in India is 1/30th that of the US, and comparable with Japan. Even if you increase it by a factor of ten to account for underreporting it’s still better than most Western states. The problem is that the sexual crimes underreporting factor in play in India is likely orders of magnitude higher than ten. Same deal with Japan, in fact. Take a look at numbers for some of the other countries on the list. Compare Egypt’s rate with, say, Israel’s. Don’t those Egypt numbers seem a bit… off? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/260 "2013-07-22T17:41:44Z")
Sure, but unless you have a better figure, what are you gonna do? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154/261 "2013-07-22T17:43:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [The UN Crime Trends survey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Sexual_violence_against_children_and_rape_statistics) says he’s right. The per capita rate in India is 1/30th that of the US, and comparable with Japan. Even if you increase it by a factor of ten to account for underreporting it’s still better than most Western states. Lets look at Delhi to get an idea about under-reporting - In 4 months since the December gangrape, public awareness was at the highest, Police claims that there are women officers in every police station now and officers are under specific instructions to note down complaints or FIRs immediately as the complainant arrives at the police station. Its hard to imagine that there are many rape cases going unreported these days in Delhi. New reported cases should be quite close to reality for these reasons. [Delhi sees 158 percent increase in rape cases, 600% rise in molestation cases while 783.67% rise harassment cases since Dec.](http://in.news.yahoo.com/delhi-sees-158-percent-increase-rape-cases-police-132038883.html) So, if x number of rape cases were being reported earlier, around 2.6x are getting reported now. y molestation cases earlier, 7y molestation cases now. z harassment cases earlier, 8.8z now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swiss-tourist-gang-raped-in-india/653154.md?page=14)