That’s a failure of your imagination, not something inherent to the fictional character.
Jesus was likely not a tall, blond white man. Whatever he did look like, he has been portrayed with many different appearances, all to the satisfaction of a variety of audiences.
So there’s no reason Thor has to be big, blond, white, or a guy, for a story about Thor to work.
For millennia, dramatic performances were limited to people who could stand right in front of you. So whatever those people looked like, human imagination was sufficient to have them play whatever roles needed to be played. So this is not a limitation of human nature.
Stage is not the same as film and TV. For the latter, audiences demand a higher level of realism. That’s just the way it is. Film a movie just like a stage play, with the same style of staging, acting, direction, with the same type of sets and lights, and people will complain that it doesn’t look real.
I get your (valid) point. The difference, to I who am woefully ignorant in matters of the bible / Christianity, is that the Christ story was created/passed down by dudes who “cast” his character in their own image i.e., lily white guy as opposed to swarthy which he certainly would have been. Even though we conceptually know where he came from, his background / culture is secondary to his words and deeds. I think that’s what makes it possible for the worshiper to picture him any way they want.
I’m almost as ignorant of superhero culture as I am of Christianity, but isn’t the canon surrounding Thor steeped in Norse mythology? It seems like that aspect is a pretty crucial part of his character and, to my mind, yes, Norse = big, blonde white guy.
I do agree, though, that more often than not race needn’t be a determining factor is casting a role.
Is it realistic for people to outrun an explosion’s fireball? Is it realistic to get punched in the face multiple times and simply shake it off? Is it realistic to fall multiple stories or crash into walls and through windows and survive with minimal injuries? Is it realistic for a person who’s flatlined to be revived by a defibrillator? Is it realistic to own a large two bedroom apartment in NYC and pay peanuts for it? TV shows and movies are not really any more realistic than stage plays.
Does this character need to be a man and does this character need to be white are two questions that I find myself asking about a lot of material. My experience is that quite often, the answer to both is no.
It’s still about context though. Is Thor the god of 14th century Vikings, where both Thor and the Vikings are a central part of the plot? If so, a black Thor creates a dissonance that distracts from the production. On the other hand, when considering an alternate version of a comic book hero with only a superficial connection to Norse mythology, if the Norse origin isn’t central to the universe, there’s no reason race needs to be. Also, there’s other attributes besides race. Eddie Remayne would make a terrible Thor.
Maybe, right now, to your mind, “Norse = big, blonde white guy.”
Maybe that’s because you believe that:
There were never any dark-skinned people in Norse culture?
Norse people could not conceive of a mythological character who is dark-skinned?
That all of humanity for all of time should be constrained by what ancient Norsemen might or might not have been able to imaging in terms of skin color?
Maybe one or more of those things might be wrong.
And, regarding characters from Norse mythology–Idris Elba portrayed Heimdall in the Marvel movies – https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/000266684hr_vert.jpg – So, what does that say about whether or not it’s possible for audiences to let their imaginations stretch?
I don’t know about that. Casting Denzel Washington as Don Pedro in Much Ado About Nothing was a brilliant move. His race was completely ignored and he just played the role straight.
More recently - very recently - in Good Omens we have the lead girl, Pepper, being played by a black girl, Amma Ris and it fit in just fine. In the original book, she’s a fiery, freckle-faced tomboy who’s clearly meant to be traditional small village English.
Possibly. I mean, *were *there any dark skinned people in Norse culture? That’s a serious question because I honestly don’t know. Even if that’s true, the VAST majority of people, when picturing Vikings in general and (superhero)Thor in particular, will picture a big, white blond guy. If I’m casting for a movie (less so for a play)my goal is going to be to immerse the audience in the experience, not distract them by asking them to completely disregard everything they’ve ever thought about a well known character. I’m all for our people of color / women/LGBTQ, etc. to have an equal presence in, well . . everything. I also think that doesn’t mean every individual is equally suited for every role.
Speaking of Thor and switching races, Heimdall , guardian of the Rainbow Bridge, has always been depicted in Marvel comics as pretty Nordic and white, but for the MCU films he’s portrayed by Idris Elba.
The major race-change in the MCU films, of course, is Nick Fury, who was originally white in the comics, but later was re-imagined in the Ultimate Universe as a black character resembling Samuel L. Jackson. In the MCU he’s been played by Samuel L. Jackson
In the movie Vampira (also released as old Dracula), David Niven, as Dracula, seeks to revive his long-lost love Vampira by giving her blood from a variety of women. One of them was black, so the revived Vampira is black, as well. This gives the filmmakers an excuse to have what would be expected to be a white European character by the black Teresa Graves.
Why? Why is it less important for a play and why would mixed race casting make the audience less immersed?
I think if there’s one lesson we can take from Brecht, it’s that regardless of what you do, if the audience wants to immerse itself, it fucking well will.
Do you suppose there’s a way to find out the answer? Should you find out the answer? What would the answer mean to you?
Maybe the fact that you honestly don’t know is something you can work with. Maybe not knowing might itself be something that can help unlock your imagination.
Maybe. So what? Is it a belief that it’s important to society in some way? What if one day a character that has always been thought of as white was suddenly now portrayed as black?
Or a man, now a woman?
Or a child, now an adult?
Or a human, now an extraterrestrial?
Or a god, now a mortal?
Or a young person, now old?
Or beautiful, now ugly?
Or a character with frizzy, dark hair and buck teeth now Emma Watson?
Or Rosemary Harris now Marisa Tomei https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/595fc02796475a07efe992ec/master/w_768,c_limit/Marisa-Tomei-Aunt-May-Role.jpg)?
What happens? Has that ever happened before? And what happens after that, if it becomes, say, a popular film?
Maybe it’s just me, but watching a play is just a completely different experience than watching a film. That’s why (again, just mho) I don’t really enjoy dramatic plays. To me drama necessarily needs to feel realistic.
You have to include the context in the discussion. The reality of show business is that white people are vastly over-represented and non-white people are vastly under-represented (even when you take population percentages into account). The same disparity exists regarding genders.
So while a surface evaluation would say that casting a white actor as a non-white character is the equivalent of casting a non-white actor as a white character, that’s not the reality given the context. The reality is that casting a white actor as a non-white character increases the disparity while casting a non-white actor as a white character reduces the disparity.
If I’m doing a Viking-type depiction of Thor, I’m probably doing a big guy dressed in furs and ring mail with a beard. Hair colour wouldn’t be important to me, but a ruddy complexion would. I wouldn’t have a character dressed up like he’d come out of a 19th century German opera.
I did a fair amount of reading about mythology, including Norse mythology, when I was a teenager, but that’s long enough ago that I’d require a refresher before I could discuss the topic authoritatively. From what I recall, the Norse myths were much more about actions than physical descriptions. I think Balder was described as handsome and fair, which I took as fair-skinned, aka white. That implies that Thor was also white since they were brothers. There were different “races” in Norse mythology, but the races were gods, men, dwarves, giants, and I’ve probably missed a couple. I don’t think any were portrayed as dark-skinned.
So yes, if a director is trying to depict a Norse type Thor, he should use a white actor. If all he cares about is the God of Thunder, then use whatever actor best fits the storyline and universe.
