# Switzerland shows its true colors - **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383 "2010-07-12T13:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/201 "2010-07-14T17:16:59Z")
More. They refused to fight to protect human life. But as some have pointed out, they did it out of self-interest, so that makes it OK. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/202 "2010-07-14T17:21:54Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No, I would suppose what really makes them evil would be them handing children over to the Nazis. Then of course there is the keeping of the Jew’s gold for themselves. (They did fight a good fight against any return of any of that money.) Also the acres of money stolen by various dictators from poor people that has historically poured into Swiss banks. Then there is the Swiss policy of allowing their banks to help people hide their money from taxes, for a profit of course. Let us not discount their views toward crazy ideas like letting women vote. And of course we have their recent vote to prohibit minarets. (Does any other country in the world do that?) > > Other than that, I have nothing much against the Swiss. Lovely people, great place. So… they take money from dictators. We prop them up (and sell them weapons). You think the former is worse. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/203 "2010-07-14T17:22:12Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Making a dick of yourself on the internet, apparently. OMG! You have me in in the sights of your superior logic! I am doomed! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/204 "2010-07-14T17:23:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So… they take money from dictators. We prop them up (and sell them weapons). You think the former is worse. I am sure I said that. Quote me. That will put me in my place! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/205 "2010-07-14T17:25:02Z")
Well, you said that the Swiss are an especially nasty country. I wonder what you think that makes us. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/206 "2010-07-14T17:26:13Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > More. They refused to fight to protect human life. But as some have pointed out, they did it out of self-interest, so that makes it OK. Whereas the sort of fights the UK and the US have got involved with since WW2 (and killed thousands upon thousands of children doing) have been not about protecting human life but instead about promoting their idealogical agenda and national self interest. Which in my book is far, far worse. Anyway, any details about the evil Swiss handing over children? I ask as a Google search for numbers only seemed to talk about all the refugees they took in. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/207 "2010-07-14T17:27:33Z")
And the ones turned back with that big friendly **J** the Swiss asked the Nazis to use? No records, well I guess they never did it then. (Press this point, you might have me.) ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/208 "2010-07-14T17:27:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, you said that the Swiss are an especially nasty country. I wonder what you think that makes us. Apparently the Swiss are worse. All to do with banking. I mean, I know that the recent global economic collapse turned some people off bankers, but our mate in Qatar here seems to be taking it a bit far. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/209 "2010-07-14T17:29:45Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > And the ones turned back with that big friendly **J** the Swiss asked the Nazis to use? No records, well I guess they never did it then. > > (Press this point, you might have me.) I’m just asking for some details. All I can find is information about how many Jews (especially children) that were saved by being taken to Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/210 "2010-07-14T17:33:10Z")
(I am in Saudi Arabia, changing user names is too difficult to bother with.) (I am not aware I have said anything bad about the Swiss country. Nice mountains, I love their tunnels.) [Cite](http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/switzerland-second-world-war-ii.html) for keeping Jewish gold, turning over Jews to the Nazis and perhaps overlooking at least one train of Jews passing through its territory. Admittedly, no cite for handing over children. ===eta== From elsewhere on the site I cited: “Switzerland did reject between 20,000 to 25,000 Jewish refugees at the border, even after the government (not necessarily the population) was informed, that the Nazis would not only send them to labour camps but rather murder them systematically. Swiss diplomats in Germany and occupied territories did not enough to defend the rights of Swiss citizens living there, especially if these Swiss citizens were Jews.” ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/211 "2010-07-14T17:33:44Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No, I would suppose what really makes them evil would be them handing children over to the Nazis. [Most of the European refugees (principally Jews and Slavs) fleeing the Stalin, Nazis and World War II were barred from coming to the United States.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee#Under_the_League_of_Nations) > [@](#): > > Then of course there is the keeping of the Jew’s gold for themselves. (They did fight a good fight against any return of any of that money.) [CIA Ties With Ex-Nazis Shown: … The[se documents] shed new light on the secret protection and support given to former Nazi officials and Nazi collaborators by U.S. intelligence agencies](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/06/AR2006060601555.html) > [@](#): > > Also the acres of money stolen by various dictators from poor people that has historically poured into Swiss banks. And other countries don’t do that? An example from memory: [The Philippines Chasing Marcos’ Millions: … One balance sheet alone lists a total of $88.7 million in five banks in the U.S., Switzerland and the Cayman Islands.](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,961001-1,00.html) > [@](#): > > Let us not discount their views toward crazy ideas like letting women vote. Yes, granted, they were very late in giving women the right to vote. But, as of today, the Swiss Constitution currently states that men and women are equal before the law. Does the US constitution have something similar? No, it was rejected by the US population. > [@](#): > > And of course we have their recent vote to prohibit minarets. (Does any other country in the world do that?) [French MPs vote to ban Islamic full veil in public](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10611398) You are currently in Saudi Arabia? A strong ally of the US government? Are christian churches allowed there? I’m not saying that the Swiss have the best human rights record in the world, but I would still love to hear the names of the countries you think have better ethics, and examples why. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/212 "2010-07-14T17:39:39Z")
So we are no longer talking about Switzerland? (Please excuse me; it is bedtime here.) ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/213 "2010-07-14T17:41:19Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > My point is that the Swiss are an especially nasty government. > > (I wonder what the balance is between Swiss foreign aid going out and despots making secret deposits?) Hey, in Saudi the government would have simply looked the other way as 13 year old female was killed by her family for non-marital sex. Polanski might have gotten some lashes. That’s a nasty government. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/214 "2010-07-14T17:43:22Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > So we are no longer talking about Switzerland? What I’m pointing out is that you make a list of reprehensible acts for which Switzerland is responsible , and declare them one of the worst countries. I am showing you that, if you picked another country, I could make up a list showing that the country you want to hold up as a shining example can have just as bad a list made up against them. If you say Switzerland is one of the worst countries, then obviously there are many countries that are more ethical? Could you please name a few? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/215 "2010-07-14T17:45:10Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > (I am in Saudi Arabia, changing user names is too difficult to bother with.) > > (I am not aware I have said anything bad about the Swiss country. Nice mountains, I love their tunnels.) > > [Cite](http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/switzerland-second-world-war-ii.html) for keeping Jewish gold, turning over Jews to the Nazis and perhaps overlooking at least one train of Jews passing through its territory. Admittedly, no cite for handing over children. > > ===eta== > From elsewhere on the site I cited: > “Switzerland did reject between 20,000 to 25,000 Jewish refugees at the border, even after the government (not necessarily the population) was informed, that the Nazis would not only send them to labour camps but rather murder them systematically. > Swiss diplomats in Germany and occupied territories did not enough to defend the rights of Swiss citizens living there, especially if these Swiss citizens were Jews.” As did many other countries, including the US. Seeing as Switzerland shares a border with Germany and Austria, it would be understandable if they just closed shop completely and deported any Jews found to have been smuggled in. Hell, their other borders are with France (occupied by the Nazis) and Italy (allied with the Nazis). They were completely surrounded by Axis territories. They were just asking to be invaded, which would have meant the Jews they had taken in were up shit creek. Islands like the UK or lands far away like the US would have been far, far better places. Few, if any, countries are innocent but as far as evil goes, I’d say the Swiss are far behind the likes of the UK, with their imperialist past, and the US, that has waged idealogical wars pretty much constantly since WW2 and has a very good history of propping of dictators. Buit shit! Gold and a train! Gold and a train! ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/216 "2010-07-14T18:18:00Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > As opposed to the thousands upon thousands of children killed by the likes of the US and UK in various wars? Why are we even arguing about equivalency? It’s inane. It’s like saying we shouldn’t prosecute a violent offender because soooooo many other people are also violent. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/217 "2010-07-14T18:20:47Z")
No, it’s like saying that you stop talking shit about someone else’s delinquent kid when everyone can see yours outside stealing car stereos. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/218 "2010-07-14T18:22:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No, it’s like saying that you stop talking shit about someone else’s delinquent kid when everyone can see yours outside stealing car stereos. Except that the other kid has been convicted of rape and is hiding out in his mom’s basement. The point is: you prosecute both crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/219 "2010-07-14T18:23:41Z")
Analogies don’t work very well when you forget what they represent. We’re not talking about whether Polanski is a Bad Man. We’re talking about whether Switzerland is a Bad Place for refusing to extradite him. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/220 "2010-07-14T18:31:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Analogies don’t work very well when you forget what they represent. We’re not talking about whether Polanski is a Bad Man. We’re talking about whether Switzerland is a Bad Place for refusing to extradite him. I don’t know whether Switzerland is a Bad Place. There are an awful lot of people there, and it might take a while to interview them all. But yes, refusing to extradite Polanski for a violent crime he has been convicted of in a country with whom Switzerland has an extradition treaty, is Bad. Very Bad. Evil, you might say. Note that the United States has also done Bad Things. But just like your mommy told you when you were a wee tot, this does not excuse Switzerland’s behavior. I must once again point out that, as a 40+ year old man, he coerced and drugged a 13 year old girl, then raped her vaginally, orally, and anally, pled down to a much lesser, puffball charge, and then couldn’t even finish his 90 measly days in psych before skipping the country. He’s a violent offender who never completed his sentence, and he should, if there is one ounce of justice in this whole world, be extradited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383.md?page=12)