# Switzerland shows its true colors - **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383 "2010-07-12T13:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/21 "2010-07-12T15:57:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Yeah, our celebrity prisoners are just about tortured. Rumor has it that the TV in his cell wasn’t even going to be high-def. > > :rolleyes: > > Fuck Switzerland. You know, in a raping, pedophelic sort of way. Ass-raping. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/22 "2010-07-12T16:04:15Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Well, I for one am glad that we’ve been able to hear from an expert on international law, who is clearly fully informed on all the niceties and intricacies of the exact treaty governing US/Switzerland diplomatic relations. c/s This whole episode is bullshit and a complete waste of time. The victim has even requested that the incident be ended. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/23 "2010-07-12T16:07:55Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Well, I for one am glad that we’ve been able to hear from an expert on international law, who is clearly fully informed on all the niceties and intricacies of the exact treaty governing US/Switzerland diplomatic relations. On the first point: Polanski was never sentenced. To claim that he may have served a sentence that was never imposed is absurd. On the second point: I don’t see how the principle of laches can possibly apply here. For laches to be applicable the delay must have harmed the defendant appreciably. It cannot be argued that Polanski is worse off having been free for so many years and is only now being arrested. > [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > p.s. I have no doubt that the US cooks up as much, if not more, “bullshit” as you put it to prevent the extradition of US citizens for crimes abroad. Doubly so if that person is politically connected and/or otherwise influential. Tu quoques do not impress me. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/24 "2010-07-12T16:10:36Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > What…the…fuck? While the “police state” thing is OTT. There are issues with extraditing to the States. No person facing the death penalty would be extradited from Europe for example unless there was a guarantee that the person would not be executed. Here’s a recent example where a absolute scumbag is not being extradited(or at least having the process delayed) due to the conditions he may and others may face in The States > [@](#): > > Europe’s highest court today said it would not allow Abu Hamza and three other men held in Britain to be extradited to the United States to face terrorism charges until it is satisfied they will not be treated inhumanely. > > …snip … > > Hamza, the radical cleric who became the face of extremism in Britain, is serving a seven-year sentence in Britain after being convicted in 2006 of inciting hatred. The previous government had wanted him sent to the US before his jail term had been completed, but the extradition was halted after his lawyers went to the European court. > > Lawyers for the men argued that if convicted, the conditions they would be held in were so severe they amounted to a breach of article three of the European convention on human rights. It says that no one should be subject to “inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”. > **[Abu Hamza extradition to US blocked by European court](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jul/08/abu-hamza-human-rights-ruling?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)** > > European court of human rights will not allow Abu Hamza to be extradited until it is satisfied he will be treated humanely ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/25 "2010-07-12T16:16:26Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > c/s This whole episode is bullshit and a complete waste of time. The victim has even requested that the incident be ended. The crime of drugging and raping a 13 year old is bullshit? That the victim requests it be ended is irrelevant. Drugging and raping a kid is a crime whether or not she wants to pursue prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/26 "2010-07-12T16:16:47Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > On the second point: I don’t see how the principle of laches can possibly apply here. For laches to be applicable the delay must have harmed the defendant appreciably. It cannot be argued that Polanski is worse off having been free for so many years and is only now being arrested. um, no it doesn’t. (again, I’m not talking that “laches” is what is used here - but the concept that no one raised a peep in Switzerland after his many years of back and forth travel, and it’s now unfair to bust him for it, is a laches-esque kind of concept) > [@](#): > > Tu quoques do not impress me. Do as we say, not as we do, I see. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/27 "2010-07-12T16:29:00Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > While the “police state” thing is OTT. There are issues with extraditing to the States. No person facing the death penalty would be extradited from Europe for example unless there was a guarantee that the person would not be executed. > > Here’s a recent example where a absolute scumbag is not being extradited(or at least having the process delayed) due to the conditions he may and others may face in The States > > [Abu Hamza extradition to US blocked by European court | UK security and counter-terrorism | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/08/abu-hamza-human-rights-ruling?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) So they’re not releasing this guy to the US because they fear he may go to Gitmo? Be tortured? The article isn’t clear. Vague worries about what an ally might do to a scumbag like that seems…well, kinda lame. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/28 "2010-07-12T16:32:27Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > um, no it doesn’t. (again, I’m not talking that “laches” is what is used here - but the concept that no one raised a peep in Switzerland after his many years of back and forth travel, and it’s now unfair to bust him for it, is a laches-esque kind of concept) How on earth is it unfair to Polanski that his free ride had come to an end? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/29 "2010-07-12T16:32:58Z")
But … but they are the US Government. Don’t the Swiss know that what they says goes no matter what? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/30 "2010-07-12T16:35:21Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > But … but they are the US Government. Don’t the Swiss know that what they says goes no matter what? I wonder if the Swiss are threatening the USA with one of the less useful but equally bizarre knife attachments. “They’ve got a round pokey-thingie coming off the knife! Sir, be careful, we don’t know what that thing is or what it can do! Step back!” ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/31 "2010-07-12T16:37:09Z")
Not to hijack the conversation further, but I will say that I am always a little surprised at the amount of discussion that goes on about the Polanski case, when there have been many extradition cases that I think are much more interesting or significant. A couple off the type of my head: The US is refusing extradition of [Warren Anderson, former chairman of Union Carbide](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Anderson_(chairman)), who fled India in 1984 while released on bail. (Warren Anderson was charged with manslaughter, relating to negligence in the industrical accident at Bhopal in 1984: 20,000 people died.) [General Augusto Pinochet was arrested in the UK in 1998](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet's_arrest_and_trial), and was arrested under an international arrest warrant issued by a judge in Spain, accusing Pinochet of complicity in the 94 counts of torture of Spanish citizens and the 1975 assassination of Spanish diplomat Carmelo Soria. The UK’s Home Secretary, after many months, decided that Pinochet could return to Chile. I wish these cases would have been as vigorously discussed in the USA as the Polanski case has been. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/32 "2010-07-12T16:40:41Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > So they’re not releasing this guy to the US because they fear he may go to Gitmo? Be tortured? The article isn’t clear. > > Vague worries about what an ally might do to a scumbag like that seems…well, kinda lame. The problem is with SuperMax prisons which hold prisoners basically in eprmanent solitary confinement from what I can see. The guy being a scumbag or not doesn’t really matter. The law is the law and while the US doesn’t have to adhere to the European idea of human rights, Europe doesn’t have to subject it’s citizens to illegal treatment from it’s POV. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/33 "2010-07-12T16:42:38Z")
> [@Chicagojeff](#): > > c/s This whole episode is bullshit and a complete waste of time. The victim has even requested that the incident be ended. The offense is one against society, not one just against a person. That is why it is a criminal matter, and not one at civil law. I really do not care how much she was paid to say what. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/34 "2010-07-12T16:43:56Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > The problem is with SuperMax prisons which hold prisoners basically in eprmanent solitary confinement from what I can see. > > The guy being a scumbag or not doesn’t really matter. **The law is the law and while the US doesn’t have to adhere to the European idea of human rights, Europe doesn’t have to subject it’s citizens to illegal treatment from it’s POV**. I understand, thanks for the clarification. I was wondering what the specific issue was WRT extradition in terms of meeting some standard of what’s considered humanitarian treatment. FTR, if I ever decide to murder a bunch of people, I am so fleeing to Finland! ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/35 "2010-07-12T16:50:17Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > How on earth is it unfair to Polanski that his free ride had come to an end? it’s not an unfairness per se. he had been traveling back and forth from switzerland numerous times and nothing happens. US doesn’t bother trying to extradite, switzerland doesn’t pick him up being subject to the international arrest warrant. so at some point it gets to be where he may be able to rely on that fact when he keeps going back and forth. . generally, criminal law isn’t subject to this go-free-because-of-non-prosecution. but a) swiss laws are different, and b) this is extradition stuff isn’t normal criminal law. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/36 "2010-07-12T16:51:43Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Ass-raping. Correct you are. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/37 "2010-07-12T17:03:39Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > This sentence tucked away in the Justice Ministry statement from the article linked above tells us all we need to know: > > Switzerland has been under unremitting pressure from senior figures in the French government ever since the kiddy diddler was apprehended. In the end the Swiss folded, as was inevitable. > … Exactly. Next thing you know France will declare war on you and…surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/38 "2010-07-12T17:18:58Z")
Good for the Swiss for not letting the U.S. bully them. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/39 "2010-07-12T17:21:49Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Exactly. Next thing you know France will declare war on you and…surrender. The 3500 French soldiers fighting with your guys in Afghanistan haven’t surrendered yet. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/40 "2010-07-12T17:21:51Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > BTW I caught the brilliant HBO documentary about Polanski recently. Is it called ‘Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired’? I see it’s available as an instant-view on Netflix, I might watch this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383.md?page=3)