# Switzerland shows its true colors - **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383 "2010-07-12T13:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/121 "2010-07-13T15:51:44Z")
Hey **Paul** , how about you shut the fuck up with the Socratic dialogue? Switzerland is acting no differently to any other country. If you want to try to paint the Swiss acting in their own self interest as being an aberration amongst nations, then you’re a fucking retard. I notice these hand wringing analyses of the morality of various nations only occur when a country other than the US decides to act in its own self interest for a change. > [@](#): > > To restate the question, can you think of any case where the Swiss have done something against their own self-interest because they felt it was the right thing to do? How about [settling](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/03/world/main6169778.shtml) former inmates from Guantanamo (who have no connection to Switzerland)? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/122 "2010-07-13T15:56:32Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Hey **Paul** , how about you shut the fuck up with the Socratic dialogue? Switzerland is acting no differently to any other country. If you want to try to paint the Swiss acting in their own self interest as being an aberration amongst nations, then you’re a fucking retard. I notice these hand wringing analyses of the morality of various nations only occur when a country other than the US decides to act in its own self interest for a change. Not a snark, but how is it in the Swiss national self-interest not to extradite this fellow? Is it because he’s a wealthy and famous celebrity? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/123 "2010-07-13T15:59:43Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Not a snark, but how is it in the Swiss national self-interest not to extradite this fellow? Is it because he’s a wealthy and famous celebrity? It would damage their relationship with France, one of their neighbours. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/124 "2010-07-13T16:01:58Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Not a snark, but how is it in the Swiss national self-interest not to extradite this fellow? Is it because he’s a wealthy and famous celebrity? Maybe that’s the level we’re dealing with. How would anyone on this site know this? Nobody here is party to the behind the scenes talks between the French, Swiss and the US. One thing is clear, they made the decision and I’m pretty confident in saying that they didn’t do it against their interests. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/125 "2010-07-13T16:09:47Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > It would damage their relationship with France, one of their neighbours. Why would it damage relations with France? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/126 "2010-07-13T16:11:09Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Maybe that’s the level we’re dealing with. How would anyone on this site know this? Nobody here is party to the behind the scenes talks between the French, Swiss and the US. > > One thing is clear, they made the decision and I’m pretty confident in saying that they didn’t do it against their interests. So the theory is that they did it so it must be in their interests to do it? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/127 "2010-07-13T16:19:42Z")
I hope folks realize it is possible to criticize the Swiss decision in thsi case without amking it into an argument about the evils American Hegemony and arrogance. Yes, America may act like a bully a lot of the time, but that does not mean that in this case there is no merit to the distaste for the way the Swiss handled this. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/128 "2010-07-13T16:25:56Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > So the theory is that they did it so it must be in their interests to do it? It either that or it was just a judge applying the law as he saw it. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/129 "2010-07-13T16:29:09Z")
So I don’t have to re-read the thread, what specifically is France’s objection (other than some technicality)? Are they really pulling the “he’s a national treasure” worshipful card or what is it? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/130 "2010-07-13T16:31:29Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > I hope folks realize it is possible to criticize the Swiss decision in thsi case without amking it into an argument about the evils American Hegemony and arrogance. Yes, America may act like a bully a lot of the time, but that does not mean that in this case there is no merit to the distaste for the way the Swiss handled this. Nor, by the same token, is it impossible to believe that the Swiss are acting for reasons rather more complex than a simple dislike of America. That’s the point I was attempting to make earlier. I’m no legal expert, and thus I have refrained from commenting on this case, because I assume that there are issues here with which I am unfamiliar and therefore unqualified to comment on. I’m willing to let those who know what’s going on settle matters between them and trust that they’re acting reasonably and responsibly. Sadly, it seems that the internet has turned the entire populace of the civilized world into instant experts on every topic on earth, so that based on only the sketchiest of relevant information, we can instantly decide what’s correct and happily settle down into an exchange of name-calling and swearing without the slightest concern that just possibly the other side may have some merit to it. I’m sure there are people here who may be somewhat qualified to speak, though I doubt that anyone involved here has access to every relevant piece of information. And I’m not talking about just this thread - this is merely the latest example in a long long long string of threads that go like this, here and on the rest of the internet. Frankly, it’s starting to scare me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/131 "2010-07-13T16:39:24Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > So I don’t have to re-read the thread, what specifically is France’s objection (other than some technicality)? Are they really pulling the “he’s a national treasure” worshipful card or what is it? The French do not extradite their citizens, period. They argue (with some justification) that if one of their citizens is to be tried for a crime, they should be the ones to do it. In Polanski’s case, they have offered to do so, and the US has refused. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/132 "2010-07-13T17:06:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The French do not extradite their citizens, period. They argue (with some justification) that if one of their citizens is to be tried for a crime, they should be the ones to do it. In Polanski’s case, they have offered to do so, and the US has refused. Ah, OK. Well then, the US should respect that French law. And allow the French to try him. He’s their citizen. If America wanted to deal with him they shouldn’t have let him leave the country in the 1970’s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/133 "2010-07-13T17:30:12Z")
Well, technically they didn’t _let_ him; he fled after hearing that the judge was going to throw the book at him. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/134 "2010-07-13T17:41:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I heard and read several times at the time all this was going on that in France, sex between grown men and thirteen or fourteen year old girls was not all that uncommon and that many people in France were somewhat critical of America’s ‘puritanical’ response to Polanski’s behavior. I also recall reading much more recently a comment by a different Frenchman to the effect that while one may very well find it enjoyable to ‘lie down’ with a fourteen-year-old girl, one most certainly wouldn’t want to engage her in conversation afterward. > > Now I have no idea whether either of these are true or not, but I do recall having read and heard them at the time, and if true these types of attitudes may well explain France’s apparent easy forgiveness of Polanski and whatever pressure it may have brought upon Switzerland to refuse to extradite him to the U.S. > > (And while we’re on the subject, I’d welcome knowledgeable information as to whether these types of attitudes either were or are prevalent in France.) Only a few decades ago in the United States sex between any male and a thirteen year old female was not considered a crime other than fornification or possibly adultery (illegal in some areas). The age of consent was 12. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/135 "2010-07-13T17:45:45Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Only a few decades ago in the United States sex between any male and a thirteen year old female was not considered a crime other than fornification or possibly adultery (illegal in some areas). The age of consent was 12. What does this have to do with the legality of rape? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/136 "2010-07-13T17:49:29Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Can you think of any example of the Swiss government behaving ethically on any issue? I am sure there must be some, but I certainly cannot think of one. … I hope some Smart Person will come and educate me on Swiss morality. Just off the top of my head, with no research: Switzerland gives a greater portion of their GNP to foreign aid than many other countries (including the US). Switzerland, is in 700 years of history, has never had slavery. Nor has it had half of the country starting a war for the purpose of maintaining the institution of slavery. Switzerland, since 1515, has never invaded another country; not even considering the added factors of invading a country using false pretenses causing thousands of civilian deaths. Switzerland has never launched atomic bombs causing tens of thousands of civilian deaths. Switzerland has never passed laws relagating citizens of a different skin color to the back of buses, segregated areas of movie theatres, or forbidding interracial marriages. Switzerland has thousands of political refugees living in the country right now receiving governmental aid. Switzerland does not have the best human rights record, but to imply that they never act ethically shows a total ignorance of the country. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/137 "2010-07-13T17:50:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, technically they didn’t _let_ him; he fled after hearing that the judge was going to throw the book at him. Hm. Well, in an instance such as this one, where a foreign citizen commits a crime on American soil, was arrested and about to be tried for his crime in America, then perhaps it is the French that should allow for his extradition in this case. I read somewhere that there’s an international warrant out on him. Why wouldn’t France pick him up and try him there on that basis alone? ---
**Author:** ![dudemanjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@dudemanjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dudemanjack)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/138 "2010-07-13T17:50:50Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > why? > > let’s take a not-really-analagous case, and ask about your feelings (i.e. not your legal feelings, but your sense-of-fair-play feelings): > > you drive down a road 2x per day. speed limit is 35 mph. you go 45 down this road all the time. every day, both times, the same cop car is there, and porky is out with his gun, clearly radar gunning you. let’s even say he waves at you when you drive by, and has a big ol smile on his face. you never get pulled over. this goes on for a month. then one day you’re doing your 45, and you get pulled over. > > Do you think you have no moral (I repeat, **not legal** ) grounds to be a bit pissed off? to feel that that’s a bit unfair? This is a terrible analogy. Polanksi wasn’t raping people 2x a day in Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/139 "2010-07-13T18:00:55Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > What does this have to do with the legality of rape? To begin with Polanski’s plea bargain was for sexual misconduct with a minor, not rape. To get a plea deal, the defendent has to agree to plead guilty to the charges whether or not he or she considers themselves guilty or not. Since the plea bargain debacle, Polanski has maintained the sex was consentual which makes the matter the typical the he said, she said debate of a typical rape case. Because of the girl’s age some take the position that it was automatically statuatory rape. Some people consider age of consent laws ridiculous bullshit when applied to teenagers especially sexually experienced teenagers (which were exempt from the orginal age of consent laws by the way). ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383/140 "2010-07-13T18:02:33Z")
My opinion on the whole Polanski extradition issue: I think that the Los Angeles prosecutors are spending way too much time and money on this. You should make some effort when someone flees before judgment, but I can’t really find it in me to get too excited about it. The facts are, from what I read in the LA Times: Polanski was sent for 90 days to a psychiatric facility The psychiatric facility released him after 42 days The judge called back the prosecutor and the defendant, and announced to them that he wanted Polanski to serve the full 90 days, and then be deported Polanski fled the country. If he hadn’t fled the country, he would have served 48 more days in a psychiatric country and then the judge would have tried to deport him. Well, aside from the 48 days, this is effectively what happened - he’s never coming back to the US. Spending all this time to have someone come back for a 38 days in a psychiatric hospital is just a waste of resources. If Polanski had shown a pattern of assaulting women since he left the US that would be one thing, but I have never had that he has been shown to be a serial rapist. There are plenty of more pressing concerns in the Los Angeles judicial system. Like, for example, the [new $70 million Los Angeles City jail](http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/20/local/la-me-empty-jail-20100620) that has been built but is sitting empty because there is no money to staff it, so the inmates are stuck in the old dilapidated and unsafe building. or the [unprocessed lab backlog for DNA testing](http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/21/local/me-dna21) of thousands of sexual assault test kits. This city has too many other pressing priorities to spend all this time over a 33-year-old case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/switzerland-shows-its-true-colors/546383.md?page=8)