# Sword for ceremonial court security? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957 "2012-10-17T02:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/1 "2012-10-17T02:03:56Z")
Which jurisdictions use a raised sword for ceremonial court security? In my area (Ontario), up until 1995, the Sheriff carried an upraised sword when escorting the judge into high court. Where is this still being done? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/2 "2012-10-17T07:13:45Z")
Never heard of it in U.S. courts, though it might occur somewhere. In some legislatures (U.K. Parliament, U.S. Congress), an officer will carry a ceremonial mace (although I think it is supposed to represent a scepter, rather than a weapon). ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/3 "2012-10-17T07:17:49Z")
For that matter, the sword may have represented the court’s power to punish, rather than the need to protect the judge. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/4 "2012-10-17T08:08:12Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Never heard of it in U.S. courts, though it might occur somewhere. > > In some legislatures (U.K. Parliament, U.S. Congress), an officer will carry a ceremonial mace (although I think it is supposed to represent a scepter, rather than a weapon). Well, in the UK Parliament, each House has its own Mace, which represents the Sovereign’s power, essentially symbolising the Queen’s consent that the House sit. Back in the Middle Ages, this mace was an actual damage-dealing weapon, meant to be used to escort MPs and Lords from Parliament to London, but it grew over time into this huge, ornate thing. The ‘escorting’ duty still has echoes today; when either House adjourns and members are heading out, nearby police officers will shout ‘Who goes home?’, indicating their ancient duty to escort them into the City. And when the Queen enters Parliament, she does so accompanied by courtiers bearing symbolic swords. Sorry, dorky diversion over 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/5 "2012-10-17T09:40:33Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > For that matter, the sword may have represented the court’s power to punish, rather than the need to protect the judge. It also may symbolize justice - cutting through the lies to reach the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/6 "2012-10-17T15:16:09Z")
Not from a court, but in the US the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Representatives has the [Mace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives), composed of thirteen ebony rods bound by silver, topped by a silver globe with an eagle. The Sergeant enters with the Mace, which sits on a pedestal to the Speaker’s right. The Sergeant may lift the Mace to assert authority and restore order whenever a member gets unruly. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/7 "2012-10-17T15:30:41Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Not from a court, but in the US the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Representatives has the [Mace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives), composed of thirteen ebony rods bound by silver, topped by a silver globe with an eagle. The Sergeant enters with the Mace, which sits on a pedestal to the Speaker’s right. The Sergeant may lift the Mace to assert authority and restore order whenever a member gets unruly. Reminiscent somewhat of a Roman fasces, bound rods and all. No axe blade though. As to the OP, the serjeant at arms in the House of Commons carry an actual sword. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/8 "2012-10-17T16:40:00Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > In my area (Ontario), up until 1995, the Sheriff carried an upraised sword when escorting the judge into high court. Correction: high court sitting on criminal matters, not sitting on civil matters. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/9 "2012-10-17T16:51:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It also may symbolize justice - cutting through the lies to reach the truth. Wouldn’t a giant pair of scissors be more suited to the task? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/10 "2012-10-17T18:17:04Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Which jurisdictions use a raised sword for ceremonial court security? > > In my area (Ontario), up until 1995, the Sheriff carried an upraised sword when escorting the judge into high court. > > Where is this still being done? I’ve just been reading “Phineas Redux” by Anthony Trollope, and they mentioned an under-sheriff in a courthouse carrying a ceremonial sword. But that was ca. 1870… ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/11 "2012-10-17T22:15:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It also may symbolize justice - cutting through the lies to reach the truth. > [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Wouldn’t a giant pair of scissors be more suited to the task? How about a giant syringe and hypodermic needle, symbolically full of sodium pentothal? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/12 "2012-10-17T23:22:16Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Not from a court, but in the US the Sergeant-at-Arms of the House of Representatives has the [Mace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives), composed of thirteen ebony rods bound by silver, topped by a silver globe with an eagle. The Sergeant enters with the Mace, which sits on a pedestal to the Speaker’s right. The Sergeant may lift the Mace to assert authority and restore order whenever a member gets unruly. I’m re-reading _Gangs Of New York_, the 1928 book that was the inspiration for the recent film; apparently sheriffs and under-sheriffs still used staffs (staves?) of office well into the early 19th century. Evidently, also, the U.S. Marshall for the city continued to wear a sword for formal occasions, like executions. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/13 "2012-10-18T09:34:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It also may symbolize justice - cutting through the lies to reach the truth. You are an optimist. 🙂 I believe that it derives from the medieval Lord High Constable. His badge of office was a sword. The sword symbolized “his authority to put people to death, without delay or appeal.” **Muffin** ’s assertion that it was used in criminal trials, but not civil cases, would tend to support this hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/14 "2012-10-18T15:06:11Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > Reminiscent somewhat of a Roman fasces, bound rods and all. No axe blade though… When I visited the U.S. Supreme Court in the late Eighties, the carpeting had a pattern showing repeated fasces. I’ve been back since and they’ve changed it to something not so prone to political misunderstanding. I know of no ceremonial court swords in Ohio. South Carolina has a state sword that’s displayed in the state senate, though: [South Carolina State House | South Carolina State Symbols](http://www.scstatehouse.gov/studentpage/coolstuff/seal.shtml) Several swords are used in the British coronation ceremony and other state occasions: [Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_crown_jewels#Swords) You can see them here: [http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.com/miscimages/royalregalia.jpg](http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.com/miscimages/royalregalia.jpg) [![](http://darkroom-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/2012/06/AFP_Getty-511448280.jpg) ](http://darkroom-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/2012/06/AFP_Getty-511448280.jpg) [http://media.thespec.com/images/d7/80/a2484fff4e78b7c3f6bb4f8e576a.jpg](http://media.thespec.com/images/d7/80/a2484fff4e78b7c3f6bb4f8e576a.jpg) [http://www.thediamondjubilee.org/sites/www.thediamondjubilee.org/files/styles/lightbox/public/1580996\_0.jpg](http://www.thediamondjubilee.org/sites/www.thediamondjubilee.org/files/styles/lightbox/public/1580996_0.jpg) Symbolic swords of justice were displayed in some British courtrooms, at least in the past; this is the only such picture I was able to find: [http://www3.open.ac.uk/events/2008428\_41172.jpg](http://www3.open.ac.uk/events/2008428_41172.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/15 "2013-08-12T16:35:07Z")
Just came across this thread and thought I’d add that the sword is commonly used with statues representing “[Lady Justice](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice).” One of the most famous is the statue of [Lady Justice over the Old Bailey in London](http://www.google.ca/search?q=lady+justice+old+bailey&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mQ0JUtn_IuKMyQH0_4A4&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=580). She’s blindfolded, to represent impartiality; carries the scales of justice in one hand, to measure the case fairly; and an upraised sword in another, to enforce the court’s decision. There are two statues outside the Supreme Court of Canada: [Veritas (“Truth”) and Justitia (“Justice”)](http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/vis/art/statues-eng.aspx). Justice carries a sword. I’ve always liked the symbolism of the two: Truth is bold, uncovered, and pointing firmly at a particular document; Justice is hooded, carrying the sword, partly concealed, and mysterious. Justice does work in mysterious ways. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/16 "2013-08-12T17:05:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > One of the most famous is the statue of [Lady Justice over the Old Bailey in London](http://www.google.ca/search?q=lady+justice+old+bailey&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mQ0JUtn_IuKMyQH0_4A4&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=580). She’s blindfolded, to represent impartiality; carries the scales of justice in one hand, to measure the case fairly; and an upraised sword in another, to enforce the court’s decision. [nitpick] The Old Bailey statue isn’t blindfolded. [![](http://www.speel.me.uk/gppic/iconiclondonsculpt/oldbaileyjustice2.jpg) ](http://www.speel.me.uk/gppic/iconiclondonsculpt/oldbaileyjustice2.jpg) [/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/17 "2013-08-13T02:49:16Z")
And here she is with an old friend: [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PqQZj-Hkrjc/T3xq29vTYyI/AAAAAAAADFw/OyAYoqD6xWs/s1600/Rumpole+of+the+bailey.jpg](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PqQZj-Hkrjc/T3xq29vTYyI/AAAAAAAADFw/OyAYoqD6xWs/s1600/Rumpole+of+the+bailey.jpg) The statue is also wistfully, regretfully spoken to by V. in the graphic novel _V for Vendetta_. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/18 "2013-08-13T03:02:58Z")
Sorry - I must have been thinking of another one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/19 "2013-08-13T03:34:12Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Wouldn’t a giant pair of scissors be more suited to the task? A large shovel? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957/20 "2013-08-13T03:36:11Z")
Court no 1 in the City of London Magistrates Court has very big sword hanging behind the bench. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-for-ceremonial-court-security/637957.md?page=2)