# sword in the stone...how did it get there?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [December 9, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580 "2010-12-09T20:50:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@flano1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flano1)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/1 "2010-12-09T20:50:12Z")
In the last Merlin episode, after borrowing Excalibur from some watery tart, Merlin magically embeds it in a…er…stone.
Thus beginning you know what.
However, though my knowledge of Arthurian lore is superficial, I don’t recall any other reference to how the sword got in the stone.
Please correct my ignorance.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/2 "2010-12-09T21:05:44Z")
IIRC, the sword in the stone miraculously appeared as a test to identify the King. So Sword and Stone (or Anvil, depending on your source) were miracles. no human put it in there.
The Sword in the Stone isn’t Excalibur/Caliburn, the sword he got from the Lady of the Lake.
IIRC, again, it first appears in Mallory. It’s been a long time since I read the old texts, but it ain’t in Geoffrey of Monmouth, and I don’t think it’s in Wace or Layamon.
The John Boorman movie **Excalibur** has Uther himself plunging it into a stone, but that seems to be the film’s original creation. Disney’s (and T.H. White’s) \*\* Sword in the Stone\*\* shows it magically appearing, as in Mallory.
Interesting bit: An article in \*Skeptical Inquirer[/i a few years back has photos of a Medieval sword embedded in an anvil in a Spanish church, suggesting this might be the origin of the meme. Nobody knows who put that sword in the anvil, either.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/3 "2010-12-09T21:07:18Z")
Carrot put it there.
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### Author:  [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/4 "2010-12-09T21:19:22Z")
Aslan. I should think it was obvious.
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### Author:  [@flano1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flano1)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/5 "2010-12-09T21:27:04Z")
Hey Cal, haven’t got a link to the anvil sword, by any chance, do ya?
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### Author:  [@mckall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mckall)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/6 "2010-12-09T21:35:43Z")
I did find this link about a Tuscan ‘Sword in the Stone’:
[http://www.crystalinks.com/excalibur.html](http://www.crystalinks.com/excalibur.html)
It’s about half way down the page.
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### Author:  [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/7 "2010-12-09T21:46:05Z")
A wizard did it.
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### Author:  [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/8 "2010-12-09T22:17:45Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham]
IIRC, the sword in the stone miraculously appeared as a test to identify the King. So Sword and Stone (or Anvil, depending on your source) were miracles. no human put it in there.
[/QUOTE]
For a brief second after reading the headline, I thought it was going to be about an ICP take on Arthurian legend. However, I then realized that would probably read, “Sword in the stone … how **the fuck** did it get there?”
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### Author:  [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/9 "2010-12-09T22:33:54Z")
> [@NDP](#):
>
> For a brief second after reading the headline, I thought it was going to be about an ICP take on Arthurian legend. However, I then realized that would probably read, “Sword in the stone … how **the fuck** did it get there?”
magnets
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### Author:  [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/10 "2010-12-10T06:22:01Z")
Some watery tart?
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### Author:  [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/11 "2010-12-10T12:15:46Z")
A moistened bint?
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/12 "2010-12-10T13:00:30Z")
The sword given by the Lady in the Lake is Excalibur. Usually the sword in the stone is not Excalibur, but that varies from tale to tale.
I remember reading one version where it was Merlin who put the sword in the stone, magically, as a test for the local men to prove who was the one true King. Merlin, of course, already knew who it was intended for, so the spell was designed for Arthur to be the successful candidate.
Ever since reading that version I had always taken it to be definitive, but I realise now it wasn’t at all.
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### Author:  [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/13 "2010-12-10T14:05:31Z")
the conclusion that i’ve reached after various versions of the arthur myth is that the sword in the stone was just there - divinely. arthur pulls it out, becomes king, battles pellinore and it breaks. thus arthur has to go find another divine sword - excaliber.
excaliber can’t be the sword in the stone because the sword arthur uses against pellinore is fresh from the stone… and if it breaks he has to get a new excaliber? it just fits better if excaliber and the SITS are separate swords.
OR it could be that the sword in the stone is just a random feat of strength devised by the local smithy.
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### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/14 "2010-12-10T14:12:41Z")
> [@Manduck](#):
>
> A wizard did it.
If I recall Mary Stewart’s _Crystal Cave_ series correctly, she has Merlin finding the sword and hiding it in a stone for Arthur to retrieve. My memory is a bit hazy, though, and also I don’t remember whether or not this was Excalibur.
I’ve always been under the impression, however, that it was put there by Merlin. A wizard did it.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/15 "2010-12-10T14:13:33Z")
I’ve read that “Sword in the Stone” started out as a mistranslation of “Sword of the Saxons.”
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### Author:  [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/16 "2010-12-10T15:52:33Z")
I’m watching Merlin with Sam Neill as one fine-looking Merlin. He stuck Uther’s sword in the (sentient) rockpile.
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### Author:  [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/17 "2010-12-10T16:30:29Z")
> [@pancakes3](#):
>
> the conclusion that i’ve reached after various versions of the arthur myth is that the sword in the stone was just there - divinely. arthur pulls it out, becomes king, battles pellinore and it breaks. thus arthur has to go find another divine sword - excaliber.
There we go. That makes more sense. Otherwise, the story is that he pulls this magical sword from the stone and then when some aquatic bimbo gives him a different sword, he just abandons it in favor of the new one, and it is never mentioned again?
I didn’t vote for him.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/18 "2010-12-10T16:33:05Z")
I recall an old _Wizard of Id_ strip: The King hands a sword to Sir Rodney and says, “Whoever pulls this sword out of a stone shall succeed me as king. Set it up in the marketplace and give everyone a try.” In the next panel Sir Rodney is walking back into the throne room, hunched over with pain-stars emanating from his lower back, and says, “How about whoever can stick it **into** the stone?!”
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/19 "2010-12-10T17:30:33Z")
In Mallory, God puts it there:
> [@](#):
>
> THEN stood the realm in great jeopardy long while, for every lord that was mighty of men made him strong, and many weened to have been king. Then Merlin went to the Archbishop of Canterbury, and counselled him for to send for all the lords of the realm, and all the gentlemen of arms, that they should to London come by Christmas, upon pain of cursing; and for this cause, that Jesus, that was born on that night, that he would of his great mercy show some miracle, as he was come to be king of mankind, for to show some miracle who should be rightwise king of this realm. So the Archbishop, by the advice of Merlin, sent for all the lords and gentlemen of arms that they should come by Christmas even unto London. And many of them made them clean of their life, that their prayer might be the more acceptable unto God. So in the greatest church of London, whether it were Paul’s or not the French book maketh no mention, all the estates were long or day in the church for to pray. And when matins and the first mass was done, there was seen in the churchyard, against the high altar, a great stone four square, like unto a marble stone; and in midst thereof was like an anvil of steel a foot on high, and therein stuck a fair sword naked by the point, and letters there were written in gold about the sword that said thus:-Whoso pulleth out this sword of this stone and anvil, is rightwise king born of all England. Then the people marvelled, and told it to the Archbishop. I command, said the Archbishop, that ye keep you within your church and pray unto God still, that no man touch the sword till the high mass be all done. So when all masses were done all the lords went to behold the stone and the sword. And when they saw the scripture some assayed, such as would have been king. But none might stir the sword nor move it. He is not here, said the Archbishop, that shall achieve the sword, but doubt not God will make him known. But this is my counsel, said the Archbishop, that we let purvey ten knights, men of good fame, and they to keep this sword. So it was ordained, and then there was made a cry, that every man should assay that would, for to win the sword. And upon New Year’s Day the barons let make a jousts and a tournament, that all knights that would joust or tourney there might play, and all this was ordained for to keep the lords together and the commons, for the Archbishop trusted that God would make him known that should win the sword.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/20 "2010-12-10T17:54:34Z")
Note to the OP- the TV series plays very fast and loose with the Arthurian myth and legends. You will gain almost no insight into Arthurian lore from the TV show.
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