# sword in the stone...how did it get there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 9, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580 "2010-12-09T20:50:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/21 "2010-12-10T18:10:01Z")
So was it a European swallow or an African swallow that put it there. I don’t think a European swallow has the right weight ratio to put the sword in the stone but then again, an African swallow is not migratory. What if there were two swallows . . . ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/22 "2010-12-10T18:12:35Z")
I always assumed it was a reference to the [Coronation Stone](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_Stone). ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/23 "2010-12-10T18:25:43Z")
Mallory seems to have “borrowed” from Robert de Boron’s poem Merlin, within which it is also implied that the sword in an anvil appeared in the courtyard by God. I found an excerpt [http://www.jstor.org/pss/458530](http://www.jstor.org/pss/458530) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/24 "2010-12-10T18:32:57Z")
> [@Encinitas](#): > > Some watery tart? Yeah, I always thought the lady of the lake had put it there to prove Arther’s character. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/25 "2010-12-10T18:41:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, I always thought the lady of the lake had put it there to prove Arther’s character. Nope. As I note above, The Lady of the Lake’s sword Excalibur is different from the Sword in the Stone in any but the most recent accounts. The Boorman film makes them identical, but whaddayuh expect from a film _titled_ **Excalibur**? Nice catch, there **Sparky** – I haven’t read Robert de Boron, and Mallory was the earliest source I knew of with the Sword in the Stone. I’ll have to look him up. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/26 "2010-12-10T19:53:05Z")
De Boron’s poem is probably the “French book” that Mallory is referring to in the excerpt I quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/27 "2010-12-10T21:11:15Z")
I’m sorry. It was an accident… I didn’t mean to. I slipped and fell and it just kinda went in. Please don’t tell anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/28 "2010-12-10T21:26:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Carrot put it there. Pleased to see this. And in the second reply. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/29 "2010-12-10T21:32:08Z")
One in a million shot, doc. One in a million. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/30 "2010-12-10T22:57:34Z")
I recall a novel (by Peter Straub IIRC) where a character proposed the interesting idea that it was a metaphor, that Arthur was actually the man who brought the knowledge of how to extract and forge iron to Britain. So it wasn’t a singular sword that he pulled from a singular stone, but swords in general. > [@GuanoLad](#): > > I remember reading one version where it was Merlin who put the sword in the stone, magically, as a test for the local men to prove who was the one true King. Merlin, of course, already knew who it was intended for, so the spell was designed for Arthur to be the successful candidate. I recall an amusing short story based on this version that had Merlin horrified when the sword turned up missing from the stone, since he knew that Arthur hadn’t done it. It turned out that the person who’d secretly pulled the sword from the stone in the night - was Guinevere. “Men! I just melted some butter and let it run down the blade. It was easy!” ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/31 "2010-12-10T23:12:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I recall a novel (by Peter Straub IIRC) where a character proposed the interesting idea that it was a metaphor, that Arthur was actually the man who brought the knowledge of how to extract and forge iron to Britain. So it wasn’t a singular sword that he pulled from a singular stone, but swords in general. > > \ This was also mentioned in _Prince Ombra_ by Roderick Macleish - and I thought it was brilliant when I first read it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/32 "2010-12-10T23:18:15Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > This was also mentioned in _Prince Ombra_ by Roderick Macleish - and I thought it was brilliant when I first read it. Aha! It was _Prince Ombra_ and not anything by Straub. I think I was reading something by Straub at about the same time and mistook where it came from, but I remember the title now. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/33 "2010-12-10T23:19:05Z")
> [@mckall](#): > > I did find this link about a Tuscan ‘Sword in the Stone’: > > [Excalibur - Sword in the Stone](http://www.crystalinks.com/excalibur.html) > > It’s about half way down the page. There is also a sword in a stone, in front of a castle in Anaheim, California. for example see here [![Imgur](https://live.staticflickr.com/3660/3612476693_ac19bfc493_b.jpg "The Sword in the Stone") ](https://www.flickr.com/photos/25967622@N00/3612476693/) ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/34 "2010-12-10T23:37:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Carrot put it there. Because its awesome: _“My nurse told me,” said Viscount Skater, “that a true king could pull a sword from a stone.” “Hah, yes, and cure dandruff,” said Lord Rust. “That’s just a legend. That’s not real. Anyway, I’ve always been a bit puzzle about that story. What’s so hard about pulling a sword out of a stone? The real work’s already been done. You ought to make yourself useful and find the man who put the sword in the stone in the first place, eh?”_ Terry Pratchett: Men at Arms ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/35 "2010-12-10T23:45:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I recall a novel (by Peter Straub IIRC) where a character proposed the interesting idea that it was a metaphor, that Arthur was actually the man who brought the knowledge of how to extract and forge iron to Britain. My wife read an intriguing book that suggested that the “sword drawn from the stone” may have been a distant memory of a weapon forged from an iron meteorite. A iron weapon would have seemed magical if everyone else was armed with bronze swords. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/36 "2010-12-11T00:54:18Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > My wife read an intriguing book that suggested that the “sword drawn from the stone” may have been a distant memory of a weapon forged from an iron meteorite. A iron weapon would have seemed magical if everyone else was armed with bronze swords. Jack Whyte’s [The Camulod Chronicles](http://www.amazon.com/Skystone-Camulod-Chronicles-Book/dp/0765303728/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_4) had this as a plot point. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/37 "2010-12-11T09:31:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Interesting bit: An article in \*Skeptical Inquirer[/i a few years back has photos of a Medieval sword embedded in an anvil in a Spanish church, suggesting this might be the origin of the meme. Nobody knows who put that sword in the anvil, either. Interesting! Link? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/38 "2010-12-11T09:40:10Z")
The “iron sword = magic sword” idea also cropped up in Peter Dickinson’s _Flight of Dragons_. That’s where I first encountered it. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/39 "2010-12-11T09:55:18Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Interesting! Link? Probably [this](http://www.sangalgano.org/ENG/swordinthestone.htm). ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580/40 "2010-12-11T17:58:20Z")
Off-topic, but I once read a short story about a time traveler who ends up in medieval Britain, and decides to do some meddling in politics. He basically makes an electromagnet, and sticks a sword in it for all the locals to try pulling out, except he can turn it off when someone he likes takes a shot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sword-in-the-stone-how-did-it-get-there/563580.md?page=3)