# Swords carried on the back? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847 "2010-07-15T23:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/21 "2010-07-16T16:31:33Z")
At a certain point in the development of social hierarchy, _someone else_ carried your sword from place-to-place, and handed it to you when you wanted it: the squire. If it was awkward or labor-intensive for the squire, well, that’s “character building.” The first movie I can remember noticing back-carried swords was _Conan the Barbarian_, in which, iirc, the leather strap that went over your shoulder like a baldric could be (and was) slid down off the shoulder and pulled tighter to convert it from a back scabbard to a waist scabbard. That doesn’t sound historical, but it was cool-looking as hell, especially as a gesture of resolve (like the incessant cocking of handguns to punctuate speechifying in modern movies). ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/22 "2010-07-16T16:38:46Z")
FWIW, I carried my rifle on my back. Lots of people did. There were just so many things wrong with carrying it on your hip. For one, it’s too long. It hits the groung. Two, it bangs into your kneecaps when it bounces around while you walk. Three, you had to drape your arm over it awkwardly. Then there’s doorways. For battle, I wouldn’t carry my weapon on my back. For travel, though? It’s the only way to go. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/23 "2010-07-16T16:40:48Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > At a certain point in the development of social hierarchy, _someone else_ carried your sword from place-to-place, and handed it to you when you wanted it: the squire. If it was awkward or labor-intensive for the squire, well, that’s “character building.” > > The first movie I can remember noticing back-carried swords was _Conan the Barbarian_, in which, iirc, the leather strap that went over your shoulder like a baldric could be (and was) slid down off the shoulder and pulled tighter to convert it from a back scabbard to a waist scabbard. That doesn’t sound historical, but it was cool-looking as hell, especially as a gesture of resolve (like the incessant cocking of handguns to punctuate speechifying in modern movies). You may be on to something there! I was thinking it would be one particular movie or TV show that really “kicked off” the back-carry depiction, and “Conan the Barbarian” is a very likely contender. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/24 "2010-07-16T16:42:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note the pictures in this wiki article: > [Landsknecht - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht) > > Those Landsknecht Zweihänder swords were just about as big as they get, and they were carried like a WWI-WWII rifle, on the shoulder, the ricasso often having a dull or even leather covered area for this purpose. I’m sure the extended ricasso was convenient for that purpose, but I doubt that that’s why it was there. Almost certainly it’s purpose was to allow for a more comfortable half-sword grip. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/25 "2010-07-16T17:17:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If yu’re riding long distances, you hang your sword from your _horse_. Don’t be silly, horses are terrible with a sword. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/26 "2010-07-16T19:55:44Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > You may be on to something there! I was thinking it would be one particular movie or TV show that really “kicked off” the back-carry depiction, and “Conan the Barbarian” is a very likely contender. Thanks! Not sure if it was Conan (which was first, IIRC) or the rash of “Ninja” films of the '80s that made it popular. But “gripping the sword on the back” is a classic film ninja pose. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/27 "2010-07-16T20:46:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not sure if it was Conan (which was first, IIRC) or the rash of “Ninja” films of the '80s that made it popular. But “gripping the sword on the back” is a classic film ninja pose. Oh, I cannot believe that I forgot about the ninja movies! They had to be a major influence on the current “sword-on-the-back” carry style. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/28 "2010-07-16T21:53:17Z")
On the US Army M-1910 backpack, the M-1905 bayonet was attached like the sword the OP describes. The blade alone was 16", and the tip of the scabard was attached to the pack by a loop, so it was almost impossible to draw, let alone sheath. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/29 "2010-07-16T22:55:11Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Don’t be silly, horses are terrible with a sword. However, they are +1 to hit +3 to damage with a mace or flail ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/30 "2010-07-17T00:07:30Z")
I’ve carried a gladius (not to be confused with the longer spatha) all day on my hip and while I won’t say it was trivial I will say it wasn’t a big deal. (I did have to be careful when I sat down, but that was still easier then sitting down with a full size sword.) I carried it the way it was carried back in the day; on the [right hip](http://www.legionsix.org/Equipment/Basic%20Gear/Weapons/weapons.htm)[SUP]1[/SUP] with the baldric under the belt around my waist. [Drawing it](http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/Homework/romans/weapons.html) was easy because it was short. I can _imagine_ a two-handed Claymore[sup]2[/sup] being carried in a scabbard worn on the back, but only for purposes of freeing up the wearer’s hands. It certainly couldn’t have been drawn by the wearer. (At least not with any scabbard that I could document from a period “illustration.”) That being said, I can imagine that drawing it would have been done by either: [ol] [li]taking the scabbard off before the battle, drawing the Claymore and dumping the scabbard to be collected at the end of the battle. [/li] [li]bending over and having a buddy draw it for you.[/li][/ol] Neither of which is anything like a quick draw. (I was in a re-enactment group and we used to experiment with this kind of thing all the time. Experiential archeology so to speak.) I can’t imagine carrying a Zweihänder on my back. The damned things were typically much bigger than the two-handed Claymore. 1 “The baldric passed over the left shoulder and underneath the soldier’s belt, enabling the soldier to quickly draw the weapon from the right side (a move once thought difficult or unlikely, but proven by Roman reenactment to be quite easily managed).” 2 I never liked the two-handed Claymore because the handle was round and therefore there was no way to feel which way the edge was facing. Exactly the same as trying to feel if the label on a wooden baseball bat was up. ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/31 "2010-07-17T03:10:33Z")
[Drawing the gladius](http://www.flickr.com/photos/8048432@N05/2469005070) ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/32 "2010-07-17T04:10:40Z")
“He used his experiment to disallow swords being drawn from a back scabbard in his D&D games.” Did he follow that up with experiments about magical ingredients and incantations not really making fireballs? Talk about your killjoys. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/33 "2010-07-17T04:21:29Z")
Magic is one thing, since it is part of the game. But fighters routinely draw their broadswords from scabbards on their backs, and he found this was not possible with a sword of that length and with a scabbard as one normally considers a scabbard. I never played with him, but ISTM that adding a bit of realism adds something to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/34 "2010-07-17T06:19:34Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Oh, I cannot believe that I forgot about the ninja movies! They had to be a major influence on the current “sword-on-the-back” carry style. A famous Japanese warrior named Miyamoto Musashi fought the climactic battle of his life on an island against another legendary warrior Sasaki Kojiro. One advantage in battle that Sasaki had was a very long sword. In all the movie depictions of this warrior that I have seen, he always carried this sword on his back. But he didn’t draw it from there. He generally knew when he was going to fight, at which time he took the scabbard off his back, drew the sword and tossed the scabbard aside. Musashi defeated him by using an even longer weapon, by the way. Which goes to prove that there’s always some guy with a bigger weapon than yours. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/35 "2010-07-17T15:29:47Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > FWIW, I carried my rifle on my back. Lots of people did. There were just so many things wrong with carrying it on your hip. For one, it’s too long. It hits the groung. Two, it bangs into your kneecaps when it bounces around while you walk. Three, you had to drape your arm over it awkwardly. Then there’s doorways. > > For battle, I wouldn’t carry my weapon on my back. For travel, though? It’s the only way to go. A rifle is much heavier than a sword. Even the M-16 and its variants, which are very light rifles, are several times heavier than a typical sword. A fully loaded M-16A4 weighs about nine pounds, and again, it’s one of the lightest primary infantry rifles ever designed; an FN or AK-47 would be several pounds heavier when loaded. A fairly heavy sword would weigh three or four; the very biggest swords, like claymores, maybe five. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/36 "2010-07-17T15:42:14Z")
Huh. I assumed that large old swords would be heavier, but [I googled](http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm). > [@](#): > > For example, the lengthy catalog of swords from the famed Wallace Collection Museum in London readily lists dozens of fine specimens among which it is difficult to find any weighing in excess of 4 pounds. Indeed, the majority of specimens, from arming swords to two-handers to rapiers, weigh much less than three pounds. FWIW, my broadsword weighs 4 pounds, 10-1/2 ounces (without the scabbard). . ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/37 "2010-07-17T16:20:52Z")
[I snapped a photo of my sword](http://www.flickr.com/photos/27492458@N05/4802258398/). I haven’t pulled it out in quite a long time, and the damp environment up here has caused a little surface rust on the crosspiece. I’ll attend to that shortly. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/38 "2010-07-17T16:38:26Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But equally, it would seem impractical for a five or six foot sword to be strapped to your hip where it drags on the ground. > > Seems very unlikely that the whole “quick draw” of a sword for battle is a real historical concern, especially for large weapons. Not like you’re prancing around like a modern fencer with a six foot claymore, running various ‘named’ defenses and offenses. Who the heck carries a six foot long sword? Or even five-footer? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/39 "2010-07-17T17:40:47Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Who the heck carries a six foot long sword? Or even five-footer? Landsknechts, Samurai, etc. There are several examples give in the thread. Johnny L.A.- I don;t get it, why would your DM even \*care \*where the sword is carried? Unless the fanboy player was insisting that a back carry gave him a extra fast draw or something. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847/40 "2010-07-17T17:57:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Johnny L.A.- I don;t get it, why would your DM even \*care \*where the sword is carried? Unless the fanboy player was insisting that a back carry gave him a extra fast draw or something. As I said, I’d never played with him. The reasoning, AIUI, is this: When a party is attacked, the fighters often have their swords slung on their backs. They respond to the attack by reaching back and drawing their swords. Speed counts in a fight, and before his experiment players would simply draw their swords and fight the enemy. After the experiment, the DM imposed a penalty so that the weapon could not be used as quickly as it could be if it had been carried in the hand. Think of it this way: Suppose you’re playing a first-person shooter game. If you want to use a different weapon from the one you’re carrying, you need to change weapons. While you’re changing weapons, the enemy can attack you. It might only take a second, but a second is enough to kill you. Ruling that a sword could not be drawn from the back makes the players think a little more about their situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swords-carried-on-the-back/546847.md?page=3)