# Sydney Hostage Crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249 "2014-12-15T00:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/1 "2014-12-15T00:42:57Z")
[http://www.news.com.au/national/a-man-is-holding-several-people-hostage-at-martin-place-cafe/story-fncynjr2-1227156241649](http://www.news.com.au/national/a-man-is-holding-several-people-hostage-at-martin-place-cafe/story-fncynjr2-1227156241649) > [@](#): > > **News.com.au** > ARMED men are holding 40 to 50 people hostage at a cafe in Martin Place in Sydney. > > There are reports that two gunman have taken hostages, some of which are standing with their hands up at the windows in the popular Lindt chocolate shop, which has two or three entrances. There is also a black and white flag being held up in a window. It is believed to be the Black Standard, a jihadist flag. > > Lindt Australia CEO Steve Loane told news.com.au he believes there are 40 to 50 people inside the cafe, including customers and staff. Again, seems to be someone who was inspired by IS. How are we to prevent this from occurring regularly in Western countries? This is why I think letting disillusioned members of IS who want to come back would be effective in preventing this from happening. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/2 "2014-12-15T01:04:36Z")
Live news from Australia: If other feeds are correct the somewhat good news is that there are less hostages being reported, about 12. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/3 "2014-12-15T01:55:26Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > [http://www.news.com.au/national/a-man-is-holding-several-people-hostage-at-martin-place-cafe/story-fncynjr2-1227156241649](http://www.news.com.au/national/a-man-is-holding-several-people-hostage-at-martin-place-cafe/story-fncynjr2-1227156241649) > > Again, seems to be someone who was inspired by IS. How are we to prevent this from occurring regularly in Western countries? > > This is why I think letting disillusioned members of IS who want to come back would be effective in preventing this from happening. Without meaning to sound completely cynical, Russia, a country that is far more of a security state with vastly less freedom than a Dick Cheney wet dream has had Malory hostage incidents. So long as you live in a western free country like Australia, there are certain risks. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/4 "2014-12-15T03:11:07Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Again, seems to be someone who was inspired by IS. How are we to prevent this from occurring regularly in Western countries? Why are occasional terrorist hostage crimes a big deal when there are about 15,000 murders a year in the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/5 "2014-12-15T03:25:33Z")
How many of those murders are prompted by international tensions? How many of them are deliberate provocations? Most of our murders are pretty ordinary. A drug deal gone bad, or one guy insults another guy’s girlfriend, or someone shoots the clerk at a store to rifle the cash register, or somebody goes off their head, etc. Very few of our murders involve the taking of hostages, or the declaration of support for a foreign state. We take those a little more seriously, as they appear to be organized and warlike in intent. Yeah, the word “terrorism” is overused – and I am more in “terror” of the local street gang than I am of Isis – but it really is qualitatively different than most domestic murders. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/6 "2014-12-15T06:08:01Z")
The idea of the word terrorism being overused doesn’t make sense. If people are randomly attacking others in the name of a religious movement I don’t know what else to call it. Repetition doesn’t negate or lesson the word. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/7 "2014-12-15T07:00:46Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Why are occasional terrorist hostage crimes a big deal when there are about 15,000 murders a year in the U.S.? Did you read the OP? This happening in Australia not the US? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/8 "2014-12-15T07:35:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The idea of the word terrorism being overused doesn’t make sense. If people are randomly attacking others in the name of a religious movement I don’t know what else to call it. Repetition doesn’t negate or lesson the word. Do you only use the word in relation to attacks carrying out in the name of a religious movement? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/9 "2014-12-15T09:19:45Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Do you only use the word in relation to attacks carrying out in the name of a religious movement? I’d say it applies to any ideologically-motivated random attack. An anarchist throwing a bomb in a market is a terrorist attack, as is the KKK burning down a black church. It’s a useful descriptive term. And terrorist attacks are scarier than "regular"murders because of their randomness. We can convince ourselves that if we stay out of dangerous neighborhoods, or don’t interact with criminals, or don’t do anything stupid then we’re pretty much immune from murder; there’s an illusion of control there that may or not be justified. But with terrorist attacks, there is no control. It can happen to anyone, anywhere at any time, based solely on your nationality, religion or color of your skin. Of \*course \*it scares people a lot more than any other crime. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/10 "2014-12-15T12:14:44Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Do you only use the word in relation to attacks carrying out in the name of a religious movement? What would like to call it? If they’re being robbed I’d call it a robbery but that doesn’t appear to be the case. The person claims to have bombs on him and also in the financial district and he wants a meeting with the Prime Minister. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/11 "2014-12-15T13:22:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The idea of the word terrorism being overused doesn’t make sense. If people are randomly attacking others in the name of a religious movement I don’t know what else to call it. Repetition doesn’t negate or lesson the word. I think we used to call it a crusade. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/12 "2014-12-15T13:57:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Russia …has had Malory hostage incidents. 😕😕 Even Urban Dictionary isn’t helping with a definition. Russia has had a whole bunch of hostage situations, the big one being [Beslan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis) and the [Moscow theatre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/13 "2014-12-15T14:01:51Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > 😕😕 > > Even Urban Dictionary isn’t helping with a definition. > > Russia has had a whole bunch of hostage situations, the big one being [Beslan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis) and the [Moscow theatre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis). Probably an Autocorrect frak-up. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/14 "2014-12-15T14:09:31Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > 😕😕 > > Even Urban Dictionary isn’t helping with a definition. > > Russia has had a whole bunch of hostage situations, the big one being [Beslan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis) and the [Moscow theatre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis). Supposed to be “many”. Posting while tired and autocorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/15 "2014-12-15T14:24:37Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > How are we to prevent this from occurring regularly in Western countries? Well, how about “Open Carry”? Come on, this is “Great Debates”, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/16 "2014-12-15T14:25:38Z")
The gunman was just named as Man Haron Monis. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/17 "2014-12-15T15:34:45Z")
Ended in a shootout. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/18 "2014-12-15T16:48:26Z")
Sounds like an attention-seeking mental case. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/19 "2014-12-16T00:48:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What would like to call it? If they’re being robbed I’d call it a robbery but that doesn’t appear to be the case. The person claims to have bombs on him and also in the financial district and he wants a meeting with the Prime Minister. I’m happy to call it “terrorist”. My concern that your justification for calling it terrorist seemed to rest on the fact that the attack was carried out “in the name of a religious movement”, the implication being that if the same tactics were used in the name of a non-religious ideology, there would be the same justification for calling them “terrorist”. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/20 "2014-12-16T02:12:20Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Well, how about “Open Carry”? Come on, this is “Great Debates”, isn’t it? Not in Australia mate, we don’t want anyone just walking around with guns. Bloody dumb idea in Australia, we don’t have that many murders etc to even justify this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249.md?page=2)