# Sydney Hostage Crisis **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249 "2014-12-15T00:42:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Onyerbike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onyerbike/32/5402_2.png) [@Onyerbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onyerbike)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/21 "2014-12-16T03:00:32Z")
Leave Australia out of your hand wringing and worrying, please. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/22 "2014-12-16T10:46:20Z")
Good thing the fucker is dead. He was a class-a scumbag. Apparently he had sent hateful letters to the families of fallen soldiers, was guilty of some sexual assaults, and involved in the murder of his wife. On top of that it’s a bit ironic that he was wanted for fraud in Iran, but the Australian government had refused to extradicte him even after all these offences. He should have been given the boot ages ago, no matter the situation in Iran. Fuck him and others like him. If they chose to do shit like this in their new country, they chose to go back where they come from - even if they come from Hell. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/23 "2014-12-16T12:06:05Z")
That’s a lot of hate, right there. We seem to know a lot about him - in fact, we know everything we need to characterise him simply as a hate-filled Muslim; do we know if he had been assessed for mental health needs, and if he had access to care? ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/24 "2014-12-16T14:03:12Z")
Fwiw, I thought the part when he asked the police to bring him an ISIS flag with all the writing on it was straight out of tragi-comedy Four Lions. How mad is this world we live in: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg97xa_nQjs) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/25 "2014-12-16T14:47:30Z")
[quote=“BOOM, post:24, topic:707249”] Fwiw, I thought the part when he asked the police to bring him an ISIS flag with all the writing on it was straight out of tragi-comedy Four Lions. How mad is this world we live in: [/QUOTE] Really weird thing for an Iranian to do? I wonder if he was raised Shia but converted to Sunni Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/26 "2014-12-16T15:33:46Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Really weird thing for an Iranian to do? > > I wonder if he was raised Shia but converted to Sunni Islam. Yes, he was a Shia to Sunni convert - if that is the correct word to use when going from one sect of Islam to another. It does appear that it’s overwhelmingly Sunni Muslims that eat the crazies. The West should have shifted alligence from Saudi Arabia/Pakistan to Iran ages ago. Two hostages were also killed. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/27 "2014-12-16T23:51:01Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > That’s a lot of hate, right there. > > We seem to know a lot about him - in fact, we know everything we need to characterise him simply as a hate-filled Muslim; do we know if he had been assessed for mental health needs, and if he had access to care? ALL Australians have access to mental health care for free if they are referred by a doctor. Under Medicare you get 12 free consults per annum, this can be extended if required. The issue of being assessed is that one must take the first step unless they are considered a risk to themselves or others and then can be put in hospital (involuntary committed) but that is a rare step in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/28 "2014-12-17T00:04:04Z")
My first question was “had he been assessed” not whether he had theoretical access. Second question was whether he had access - your answer says he would need to be an Australian citizen, that doesn’t seem right? ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/29 "2014-12-17T02:45:15Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > My first question was “had he been assessed” not whether he had theoretical access. > > Second question was whether he had access - your answer says he would need to be an Australian citizen, that doesn’t seem right? I can’t answer the question specifically, but I know when I got permanent residency status (after moving from the States), I had access to Medicare; I didn’t have to wait for full citizenship. I don’t know his immigration status, but from the length of his tenure in Australia, I would assume he was at least a permanent resident. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/30 "2014-12-17T03:31:43Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > My first question was “had he been assessed” not whether he had theoretical access. > > Second question was whether he had access - your answer says he would need to be an Australian citizen, that doesn’t seem right? Anyone who has a permanent visa of any kind (and certain people who have _applied_ for a permanent visa, who have permission to work in Australia, or who are related to Australian citizens) has access to the same public medical care as Australian citizens. I don’t know Monis’s immigration status, but I’d be very surprised if he wasn’t entitled to the same range of medical services as almost everyone else in the country is. As to whether he actually accessed them, I can’t say. He did spend some time in prison and would have been medically examined there, but I don’t know how long ago that was. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/31 "2014-12-17T05:47:58Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Anyone who has a permanent visa of any kind (and certain people who have _applied_ for a permanent visa, who have permission to work in Australia, or who are related to Australian citizens) has access to the same public medical care as Australian citizens. > > I don’t know Monis’s immigration status, but I’d be very surprised if he wasn’t entitled to the same range of medical services as almost everyone else in the country is. > > As to whether he actually accessed them, I can’t say. He did spend some time in prison and would have been medically examined there, but I don’t know how long ago that was. He would have been assessed but lots of crazies get under the radar, we don’t have too many issues with them in Australia, well you know guns and that. Yeah he would have had access to Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/32 "2014-12-17T06:07:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Really weird thing for an Iranian to do? > > I wonder if he was raised Shia but converted to Sunni Islam. A self proclaimed religious leader with no followers, the Shia wouldn’t accept his claims so he converted to Sunni. He seemed to have a manic personality, always very elevated when he appeared in the media. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/33 "2014-12-17T07:06:39Z")
> [@bluezooky](#): > > A self proclaimed religious leader with no followers, the Shia wouldn’t accept his claims so he converted to Sunni. He seemed to have a manic personality, always very elevated when he appeared in the media. He only announced his conversion to Sunni Islam a month ago. When he first came to Australia, in 1996, he presented not only as a Shia, but as a liberal Shia. He seems to have been behaving increasingly oddly for ten years or more - starting with sexual assaults in the early 2000s (though these don’t seem to have been reported or prosecuted until somewhat later), then graduating to writing offensive letters to the families of Australian servicemen dying in action, then the bizarre website, then the suspected involvement in the death of his wife, and finally this. I don’t know where in the timeline his stint in prison comes, but it’s entirely possible that at that time he wasn’t as crazy as he seems to have become later, and when he was examined there may have been no indication that by reason of mental illlness he was a danger to himself or others (which is the legal test for involuntary confinement under the mental health legislation). ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249/34 "2014-12-18T23:23:04Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > He only announced his conversion to Sunni Islam a month ago. When he first came to Australia, in 1996, he presented not only as a Shia, but as a liberal Shia. > > He seems to have been behaving increasingly oddly for ten years or more - starting with sexual assaults in the early 2000s (though these don’t seem to have been reported or prosecuted until somewhat later), then graduating to writing offensive letters to the families of Australian servicemen dying in action, then the bizarre website, then the suspected involvement in the death of his wife, and finally this. I don’t know where in the timeline his stint in prison comes, but it’s entirely possible that at that time he wasn’t as crazy as he seems to have become later, and when he was examined there may have been no indication that by reason of mental illlness he was a danger to himself or others (which is the legal test for involuntary confinement under the mental health legislation). That what it seems, it looks like he was mad and bad but we don’t really know at this stage. Hopefully this comes out in the enquiry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sydney-hostage-crisis/707249.md?page=1)