# Sympathy for the Devil and some enigmatic lyrics **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 21, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915 "2025-03-21T15:39:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/21 "2025-03-21T19:56:11Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > This may be getting a bit off topic, but I suspect there have always been local strongmen/warlords. No doubt about that, and this fact is reflected in the song. It’s a stroll through all of human history, and how evil has always been an inherent part of it. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/22 "2025-03-21T20:06:13Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > I don’t have any data available. > > I suspect that ‘modern backpacker destinations’ avoid the problem by avoiding dangerous areas, probably by having better information? I don’t have actual data but the anecdotes I’ve heard over the year about how dangerous it was make sense I think it was two main factors: - Firstly this was before the days your average hippy could afford an international flight. So they had to drive (traditionally in a ropey VW camper van) that’s an inherently more dangerous way of travelling - The developing world has become a lot safer in the last 50 years, despite what you might think listening to the news. Places like Thailand and India have functioning water systems, healthcare, communication networks and police systems that, while not incorruptible, do provide a level of protection (especially to foreign tourists) you would not have got 50 years ago. Hell travelling in Turkey is not loads riskier than travelling in western Europe nowadays, that would not have been the case 50 years ago ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/23 "2025-03-21T20:06:53Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > No doubt about that, and this fact is reflected in the song. It’s a stroll through all of human history, and how evil has always been an inherent part of it. I’m not sure the song is _that_ philosophical… it’s rock&roll after all. And I’m not sure I’d call it evil, exactly: perhaps just opportunistic. It’s much easier to steal what you want, if you have the force to do so, rather than doing the work to produce it. They don’t call the AK47 the “bandits’ credit card” for nothing… But we are getting very far from the OP topic. Probably best to split off to a new topic? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/24 "2025-03-21T20:17:58Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > I’m not sure the song is _that_ philosophical… it’s rock&roll after all. Well,I love rock’n’roll so much to declare that some rock songs of the last 70 years contain some of the deepest philosophical thoughts of their times, while you can dance to it. 😉 🎸 ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/25 "2025-03-21T20:21:24Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > some rock songs of the last 70 years contain some of the deepest philosophical thoughts of their times, while you can dance to it Counter point: they typically contain some of the most facile philosophy, that would embarrass a 16 year old that just read the Wikipedia page on philosophy, but we don’t care as they have great beat we can dance to 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/26 "2025-03-21T20:22:21Z")
Ok, fair enough. 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/27 "2025-03-21T20:32:54Z")
It may be a reference to Bob Dylan’s aborted speech at the Emergency Civil Liberties Committee dinner where he received the Tom Paine award, December 13, 1963: > I’ll stand up and to get uncompromisable about it, which I have to be to be honest, I just got to be, as I got to admit that the man who shot President Kennedy, Lee Oswald, I don’t know exactly where —what he thought he was doing, but I got to admit honestly that I too - I saw some of myself in him. I don’t think it would have gone - I don’t think it could go that far. But I got to stand up and say I saw things that he felt, in me - not to go that far and shoot. (Boos and hisses) You can boo but booing’s got nothing to do with it. It’s a - I just a - I’ve got to tell you, man, it’s Bill of Rights is free speech and I just want to admit that I accept this Tom Paine Award in behalf of James Forman of the Students Non-Violent Coordinating Committee and on behalf of the people who went to Cuba. (Boos and applause) Whatever Dylan thought he was trying to say, he got himself all garbled up. His attempt to explain himself after that wasn’t much clearer: > I am a restless soul > hungry > perhaps wretched > it is hard to hear someone you dont know, say > “this is what he meant t say” about something > you just said > for no one can say what I meant t say > absolutely no one > at times I even cant > that was one of those times ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/28 "2025-03-21T20:40:43Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Firstly this was before the days your average hippy could afford an international flight. > > > Yeah no way. The Beatles et al certainly flew in. Ringo hated the experience and left. > > George found the transcendence he sought, I’m running his own vast catalogue through my head trying to think of anything in recognition of those “Hippie Trail” folks who also wanted it. I’m stuck on “Beware of Darkness” yet that’s about thieving, robbing, evil record companies. > > John would not have written “Dear Prudence” if Prudence Farrow had not come out to play and Paul did write “Back in the USSR” and Mike Love claims some inspiration and helping out with the middle eight. > > So they had to drive (traditionally in a ropey VW camper van) that’s an inherently more dangerous way of travelling I lived in Melbourne, Australia for a bit over a year and I did not hear any of the slang in this song: Men at work, Down Under > Traveling in a fried-out Kombi > On a hippie trail, head full of zombie Kombi is a VW microbus which is certainly well-known to Deadheads No clue where a hippie trail would be, although surely along the coast and not the outback zombie is da weed, mon. You might think being close to Thailand it’d be good stuff, yet I reckon it was all home-grown. Still, good song and great video. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/29 "2025-03-21T20:43:06Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Well,I love rock’n’roll so much to declare that some rock songs of the last 70 years contain some of the deepest philosophical thoughts of their times, while you can dance to it On a tangent, I agree. Classical music seemed to peter out into a wasteland of barren sand with Schoenberg & his 12 tone theories in the early 20th century. Delivery boys did not ‘end up whistling serial tunes’ as he was alleged to have hoped. Meanwhile the Beatles, Steely Dan, & others in the late 60s and 70s looked as if rock could be a real way forward: use of lots of interesting new instruments and sounds, intelligent lyrics etc. But it didn’t last. I rather blame the ‘punk’ movement for that. It was touted as a ‘back to basics’ thing, but I suspect it was a power grab by the record companies to try to get back control by using created bands (did anyone ever believe that the Sex Pistols were a real band who wrote their own material?) to promote sales on the back of social disillusionment at the time. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/30 "2025-03-21T20:51:37Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Whatever Dylan thought he was trying to say, he got himself all garbled up. His attempt to explain himself after that wasn’t much clearer: Easy explanation: Dylan was drunk as a skunk at the occasion. And he wanted to piss off the rich liberal elite, which he detested. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/31 "2025-03-21T21:09:57Z")
I can only imagine, were there still an Ed Sullivan show, a lackey producer asking Joey Ramone, "Instead of saying ‘I wanna be sedated’, 'could you sing ‘I like to be elated’) About 40 years ago The Clash released their first single, “White Riot” - not even 2 minutes long. They didn’t take to labels and Joe Strummer was a rocker, as was Mick Jones and the rest of the band. If they were ever invited to Sullivan, there’s hardly a word in that song you can change so you may as well as them to sing “She loves you, ya, ya, ya”. Sandanista was a triple album of certainly left leaning / Thatcher & Reagan Hating and I can’t think of every lyric now, yet if Che Guevara is mentioned it’s pro-Che. Jayzus, 1977. 48 years ago. (I can do math) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/32 "2025-03-21T21:28:37Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > But we, as a society, create such weirdos with guns. I’m going to have to push back on this a bit. What did _we_ do that caused LHO to murder the president? At some point nuts and kooks have to be responsible for their own actions. I’m a liberal and I own guns. I’ve never once been tempted to kill anyone for any reason with one of them - much less for political reasons. > [@Johanna](#): > > [quoting Dylan] I got to admit that the man who shot President Kennedy, Lee Oswald, I don’t know exactly where —what he thought he was doing, but I got to admit honestly that I too - I saw some of myself in him. Sorry, but that’s bullshit. And if if it’s not, then he’s a bad person too. I’m not going to be lumped into justifications or blame for taking part in Kennedy’s murder just because Dylan is. Dylan does not speak for the everyman’s conscious. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/33 "2025-03-21T21:35:53Z")
Ha, a Rolling Stone song about The Devil thread (say on Sullivan didn’t Mick change “Let’s spend the night together” to "Let’s spend some time together) The Clash did reference Che: > You think that you can front when revelation comes? > You think it’s Che Guevara or a week in Managua?" You cannot all at once glorify armed revolutionaries and phonies who claim to fight for a cause without truly understanding it. Some say Che was an evil commie, others consider him a hero. We won’t be returning to the Garden of Eden anytime soon. > Please allow me to introduce myself… ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/34 "2025-03-21T21:41:05Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > I’m not sure the song is _that_ philosophical… it’s rock&roll after all. I don’t think there’s any question about how deep the song is. Look at the lines: > Just as every cop is a criminal > And all the sinners saints > As heads is tails, just call me Lucifer The world is not as you see it. Mine, says Satan, is the true perspective. Shove that up your loathsome and hypocritical middle-class morality. SftD is one of the premiere songs of all rock and roll. I agree with @EinsteinsHund that it “probably has the best lyrics of any Stones song.” And among the best of any rock song. > [@griffin1977](#): > > Counter point: they typically contain some of the most facile philosophy, that would embarrass a 16 year old that just read the Wikipedia page on philosophy, but we don’t care as they have great beat we can dance to Yeah, rock is a giant continuum. And so are people over time. The same person wrote “Love Me Do” and “Eleanor Rigby”. The same person wrote “The 59th Street Bridge Song (Feelin’ Groovy)” and “Graceland.” Critics and basically everyone older back in the 60s loved to single out the stupidest rock songs and smear all of rock with them. I hope we’re no longer doing that. Rock is both lyrics and beat; sometimes one is ascendant, sometimes both are absent. But when both soar the result is magnificent. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/35 "2025-03-21T22:05:30Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > I wasn’t even alive in 1964 and too young to fly out to California to shoot my home state (New York) Senator who had basically locked up the Democratic Presidential nomination that night. I think you’re mixing up 1964 up with 1968, by which point RFK had left the DoJ, become Senator from NY, and gotten fatally shot in LA. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/36 "2025-03-21T22:06:00Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > And I have to add that notwithstanding its interpretation, “Sympathy” probably has the best lyrics of any Stones song. And the cool thing is that can be debated. The cover of this single has London cops in helmets beating the shit out of protestors. Rolling Stones, Beggars Banquet, “Street fightin’ man” > Well now, what can a poor boy do > 'Cept to sing for a rock-n-roll band? > 'Cause in sleepy London Town > There’s just no place for street fighting man > No > Hey, think the time is right for a palace revolution > Hey, said my name is called disturbance > I’ll shout and scream > I’ll **kill the king** , I’ll rail at all his servants (bolding mine) Violence! Even Regicide! Was it banned by the BBC? Abso-fuckin’-lutely. Yet yeah, singing in first person as Lucifer is both ballsy and it is a great song. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/37 "2025-03-21T22:18:43Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > SftD is one of the premiere songs of all rock and roll. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/38 "2025-03-21T22:19:04Z")
I added George Harrison’s “Art of Dying” to my mixtape. Its lyrics are deeply philosophical. Too bad I don’t agree with any of them. So why’dja add it then, huh? Because it’s a banger. I mean—it’s only rock-‘n’-roll, but I like it. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/39 "2025-03-21T22:22:58Z")
No, meant November 1963 for JFK, and 1968 for RFK (who TBH was not really a New Yorker, yet wasn’t going to run against his brother Ted for Senator of Massachusetts) ETA: Yeah he wouldn’t have been directly running against his brother as Ted was up for the other Senator spot, and nothing in the Constitution that says Kennedy’s can’t be all 100 Senators, yet there were some reasons RFK did New York. I was much below voting age (which then was 21!) so _shrug_ dunno. RFK would have crushed Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915/40 "2025-03-21T22:43:06Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Kombi is a VW microbus which is certainly well-known to Deadheads > No clue where a hippie trail would be, although surely along the coast and not the outback > zombie is da weed, mon. You might think being close to Thailand it’d be good stuff, yet I reckon it was all home-grown. The singer is on the road through the Far East and is pleased to have run into a fellow Aussie, that’s all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sympathy-for-the-devil-and-some-enigmatic-lyrics/1015915.md?page=3)