# Synagogue shooting in Pittsburgh, 2018 October 27 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600 "2018-10-27T19:57:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/161 "2018-10-31T14:42:24Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Bogus rabbi was defrocked by [del]Baptist Christian front group[/del] the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations in 2003, after they found him guilty of libel. Apparently bogus rabbi was shocked to learn that one of his fellow fake rabbis didn’t think that Genesis 1-11 was necessarily based on real historical events. [Jews assail 'Christian rabbi' who appeared with Pence, and so does his own movement](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jews-assail-so-called-christian-rabbi-who-appeared-pence-so-n926406?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma) > > Twitter: [INDENT] STAGE 1: Rabbi not actually Jewish > STAGE 2: Rabbi not actually a rabbi > STAGE 3: Rabbi actually Sacha Baron Cohen [/INDENT] [https://twitter.com/Yair\_Rosenberg/status/1057467689411792896](https://twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/1057467689411792896) So the guy’s not just a fake rabbi, but a discredited fake rabbi whom even the other fake (Messianic) rabbis don’t respect. :rolleyes: Way to go, Mike Pence! You sure know how to pick 'em. Kind of like how you picked, well, you know… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/162 "2018-10-31T15:20:53Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, as you and JohnT point out, Quartz has failed to come up with an actual “good guy with a gun” example. > > I’m sure we’re all willing to wait for Quartz to manage to do that. (Patience is a virtue!) > **[UPDATED: Compiling Cases where concealed handgun permit holders have stopped...](https://crimeresearch.org/2023/06/uber-driver-in-chicago-stops-mass-public-shooting/)** > > This is a revised, updated version of a post originally written on April 21, 2015. We have most seriously updated this list starting at the beginning of 2020. UCLA Law Professor Eugene Volokh … > **[Opinion | Do citizens (not police officers) with guns ever stop mass shootings?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d76ea86ad901)** > > Several examples, including two from earlier this year (with the usual caveats about the limits of relying on such examples). [https://www.dailywire.com/news/34089/concealed-carry-holder-stops-shooting-school-event-ryan-saavedra](https://www.dailywire.com/news/34089/concealed-carry-holder-stops-shooting-school-event-ryan-saavedra) To call it a myth is a bit hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/163 "2018-10-31T15:45:56Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > … someone should tell you that while economics in the widest sense of the word has a lot to do with Church structures, banks are a lot more recent than seminaries… …:dubious: someone should tell you that we are talking about the modern world, modern banks, and modern churches… I was saying why you aren’t going to find manye non-affiliated churches with large buildings, they have trouble getting a loan from a bank if they are not backed by the larger church hierarchy. In any case, some form of banking has been around since well before christianity was a thing, and even fractional reserve banking has been around longer than the US. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/164 "2018-10-31T15:46:51Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > So the guy’s not just a fake rabbi, but a discredited fake rabbi whom even the other fake (Messianic) rabbis don’t respect. :rolleyes: That would be the case, it appears. This whole thing’s almost as hilarious as the wingnuts’ attempt to create a bogus rape accusation against Mueller. (Your Mueller thread, starting at about [post #7234](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21294618&postcount=7234) and getting better from there as the juicy details come to light. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/165 "2018-10-31T18:28:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I was saying why you aren’t going to find manye non-affiliated churches with large buildings k9, imma let you finish but the Catholic Church has some of the biggest cathedrals of all time! Of all time! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/166 "2018-10-31T19:40:48Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > k9, imma let you finish but the Catholic Church has some of the biggest cathedrals of all time! Of all time! Well, those didn’t need bank loans. There were wealthy patrons who wanted to buy their way into heaven and thousands of craftsmen, artisans, and workers who wanted to work their way into heaven. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/167 "2018-10-31T22:18:07Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > k9, imma let you finish but the Catholic Church has some of the biggest cathedrals of all time! Of all time! I don’t understand here. Are you saying that the catholic church is not a large organization, and that the cathedrals were built by some crank priest? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/168 "2018-11-01T00:18:44Z")
all I meant was that your typo “manye” was similar to “Kanye”. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/169 "2018-11-01T02:24:47Z")
If it helps any, it got a legit laugh from me, **Ludovic**. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/170 "2018-11-01T03:08:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I don’t understand here. Are you saying that the catholic church is not a large organization, and that the cathedrals were built by some crank priest? It’s called a joke, son. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/171 "2018-11-01T14:39:46Z")
It seems nitpicky and small, but I just saw photos of the event for the first time. Is no one else bothered by the fact that it was totally inappropriate to wear a tallit in that scenario? Fake Rabbi or not get the basic details right. Too minor when he was a fake to begin with? Probably. But it really is bugging me. It’s just an added layer of weird signaling nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/172 "2018-11-01T14:52:13Z")
Any word back yet from Pence or the person that picked the defrocked fake rabbi about the little gaff? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/173 "2018-11-01T16:36:40Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > It seems nitpicky and small, but I just saw photos of the event for the first time. Is no one else bothered by the fact that it was totally inappropriate to wear a tallit in that scenario? Fake Rabbi or not get the basic details right. > > Too minor when he was a fake to begin with? Probably. But it really is bugging me. It’s just an added layer of weird signaling nonsense. Well, if he wasn’t wearing a tallit, it wouldn’t provide the required visual statement of “Look! Republicans totally aren’t anti-Semitic! Really!” Which was clearly the real purpose of this shmo’s presence on the platform. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/174 "2018-11-01T16:38:48Z")
Worst. _Cosplay._ _ **EVAR!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/175 "2018-11-01T20:27:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Any word back yet from Pence or the person that picked the defrocked fake rabbi about the little gaff? Pence passes buck, says candidate invited fake fake rabbi. [https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a24472908/mike-pence-fake-fake-rabbi-pittsburgh-shooting/](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a24472908/mike-pence-fake-fake-rabbi-pittsburgh-shooting/) I mean, honestly, you couldn’t find a real rabbi to pray for the victims of an anti-Semitic attack? Actually, perhaps they wouldn’t have been able to: “Members of the Michigan Board of Rabbis are not participating in political campaigns,” Rabbi Marla Hornsten, former president of the Michigan Board of Rabbis, told NBC News. Recall that the fake fake rabbi mentioned a number of Republicans running for office (about 3:50), but not one of the victims in his speech. [https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4757811/rabbi-loren-jacobs-messianic-synagogue-shema-yisrael-offers-prayer-vp-pence-speaks-michigan](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4757811/rabbi-loren-jacobs-messianic-synagogue-shema-yisrael-offers-prayer-vp-pence-speaks-michigan) ) That said, [numerous rabbis in the area could have offered a prayer](https://www.ncronline.org/news/people/jewish-groups-decry-messianic-jewish-rabbis-prayer-pence-rally) according to Rabbi Elyse Wechterman. Though no endorsements I guess. The candidate herself is pretty weird: [Never Go Full Trump: The Lena Epstein Story - TPM – Talking Points Memo](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/never-go-full-trump-the-lena-epstein-story) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/176 "2023-06-16T19:01:45Z")
> **[Gunman in Pittsburgh synagogue shooting found guilty of all 63 federal charges...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/16/us/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-trial-friday/index.html)** > > Robert Bowers, the gunman who killed 11 worshippers at Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue in 2018, was convicted by a federal jury on all 63 charges against him. This was the deadliest attack ever on Jewish people in the US. And it took almost 5 years? What an incompetent justice system. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/177 "2023-06-16T19:03:38Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > And it took almost 5 years? What an incompetent justice system. I don’t know the specifics of the delay in this case. It could be for a lot of reasons other than incompetence’s. In addition, COVID shut down trials in many jurisdictions for a couple of year. The justice system has many goals that take priority over speed. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/178 "2023-06-16T19:09:40Z")
“Justice delayed is justice denied” is a classic quote attributed to William Gladstone from the 19th century. Witnesses forget and/or die over a 5 year period. And if the defendant is innocent that means he spent a lot of time in jail awaiting trial which he will never get back. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/179 "2023-06-16T19:12:59Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > “Justice delayed is justice denied” is a classic quote attributed to William Gladstone from the 19th century. Witnesses forget and/or die over a 5 year period. And if the defendant is innocent that means he spent a lot of time in jail awaiting trial which he will never get back . This is all true, _in general_. In this case, in addition to COVID, there could have been delays for psych evaluations of the defendant. I’ll grant you five years is a long time without a compelling reason. But it appears that justice was done eventually, despite delays. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600/180 "2023-06-17T21:54:11Z")
Looks like another such shooting [was averted](https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/michigan-man-charged-with-threatening-synagogue-18157899.php). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synagogue-shooting-in-pittsburgh-2018-october-27/823600.md?page=10)