# Synchronicity a la mode with mswas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301 "2006-01-17T02:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/41 "2006-01-17T11:29:08Z")
> [@matt](#): > > I think that’s harsh. mswas has a view of the universe that is rather far from the mainstream (and that I personally consider to be deeply flawed), but he is far from ignorant about science. Read the [pheromone thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354455), then come back and say that with a straight face. ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/42 "2006-01-17T13:24:57Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Read the [pheromone thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354455), then come back and say that with a straight face. To clarify, I don’t think he is ignorant about what science _is_ or the way it is supposed to work. I disagree with the statement that he is “tone deaf to science”. His specific knowledge of any areas of science is a different matter! Re the linked thread, I know zip about pheromones so I can’t comment. The issue of what “race” actually means and its relationship to genetics has been done to death on these boards, but not recently that I can recall. I can’t fault **mswas** for this: > [@](#): > > Are you disputing that race is determined by genetics? If two white people have a kid is there a chance that their kid won’t be white? Is that not determined by genetics? " since I have asked related questions myself in one of those threads (page 4). > **[Peace, you are a worthless piece of shit, and a liar to boot.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=49062)** > > Go fuck yourself and die. Who the fuck cares what you think. (Discussion begins on page 3, before that it is all insult exchange.) ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/43 "2006-01-17T15:57:09Z")
I haven’t been in the supernatural thread, but in the thread where statistics comes up, I’ll say **mswas** was debating fine. He wasn’t being a hypocrite because he thought he was making valid points using what he thought was good math (common sense - how can one person represent 250,000?). IOW, he didn’t know that he didn’t know. He thought he knew. I doubt there’s anyone on the board who hasn’t been fooled into thinking they thought they knew something that they really didn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/44 "2006-01-17T17:55:50Z")
Thanks matt, bup and devilsknew. I’ll try to be nicer to people when I get frustrated so that I don’t have to see you guys clarify a position when defending me in the future. 🆒 Erek ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/45 "2006-01-17T19:46:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Thanks matt, bup and devilsknew. I’ll try to be nicer to people when I get frustrated so that I don’t have to see you guys clarify a position when defending me in the future. 🆒 > > Erek You really don’t know context even if it bites you in the ass. This post really shows who you are. **MrDibble** already pointed out that what \*\*devilskew \*\* did was something all right, but that was not a defense. At the same time you pretend that you will change your ways, you still find a way to insult others, because you are cool with that kind of “defense”. Thanks anyhow for confirming the OP. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/46 "2006-01-17T19:53:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You really don’t know context even if it bites you in the ass. > > This post really shows who you are. **MrDibble** already pointed out that what \*\*devilskew \*\* did was something all right, but that was not a defense. At the same time you pretend that you will change your ways, you still find a way to insult others, because you are cool with that kind of “defense”. > > Thanks anyhow for confirming the OP. I’d like to make a note for the record that this is the first time in the Pit thread dedicated to me insulting GIGObuster where I insult him personally. You’re a fucking Tool. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/47 "2006-01-17T19:56:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’d like to make a note for the record that this is the first time in the Pit thread dedicated to me insulting GIGObuster where I insult him personally. > > You’re a fucking Tool. Too late for that you certified Joker, go read _Illuminatus_ to finish your whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/48 "2006-01-17T20:05:04Z")
> [@matt](#): > > I think that’s harsh. **mswas** has a view of the universe that is rather far from the mainstream (and that I personally consider to be deeply flawed), but he is far from ignorant about science. Being tone deaf and ignorant are two different things. I could read all the music theory in the world, and learn how to read music, but I’d still be tone deaf. I haven’t seen much to indicate he has a deep knowledge of science, but then I haven’t seen any howlers either, so I withhold judgment. (I haven’t seen the thread on pheromes.) I have seen a lack of understanding of hypothesis generation and testing, and even why that is a good thing to do, so I stand behind my accusation of tone deafness. > [@](#): > > You seem to be implying that science “started” at a particular date, and before that, all was superstition and nonsense. I strongly disagree! Certainly not! Aristotle was neither ignorant nor superstitious, but his method of reasoning about the world was badly flawed, and led to error. That is in no way an insult - I doubt either you or I could have done better (or as well) living when he did. Saying someone is wrong is not saying they are stupid. > [@](#): > > Science “started” the moment an individual made a prediction based on a model/map. The early human who noticed that charcoal is softer than wood, and predicted that fire would assist in the hollowing out of a canoe, was practising science. Hell, the ape-man from the intro to **2001 A Space Odessey** noticing the length and heft of a thigh bone, and figuring out that it would be just the thing to bash something’s head in, was practising science. Observation, hypothesis, test, all there! Remember Moonwatcher did that under the influence of the aliens’ teaching machine, and the aliens certainly did know science! Though I would say he did it after being shown a picture of what the bone could do when applied to the tapir. I’d say he murdered the other prehuman accidentally. He seemed surprised when he fell. Nonetheless, I’m sure science like stuff did get done, but I’m speaking of a formal scientific method understood as a method, and not just one of a set of tools to explore the world. Mary Shelley may have been writing science fiction, but only Gernsback’s authors know they were writing science fiction, to use an analogy. > [@](#): > > Now, it’s true that the models used in the past frequently lacked rigour and formal method. They were also cluttered with falsehoods, since our ability to spot very subtle patterns and correlations often overshoots the mark and we discern correlations that don’t exist. But it is just plain wrong, and to some degree insulting, to dismiss the knowledge and expertise developed in the past as leading to “no real progress”. Actually I think “falsehoods” is harsh, sounding intentional. I’d say errors, since they made the best guesses they could. They also did some damn fine engineering. Besides your example, consider the Roman water system and the sophisticated plumbing found in Pompeii, something that would not be recreated for about 1800 years. Science does not produce knowledge where none was made before - it accelerates the production of knowledge by providing a means to weed out false paths and to better exploit productive ones. Ancient “science” never got tested against the real world, but ancient engineering did. If you made swords, and your customers got killed by losing to a better one, you tended to try to find a better solution! Not so if you think that heavier objects fall faster and don’t think that testing this hypothesis has anything to do with science. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/49 "2006-01-17T20:22:23Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Being tone deaf and ignorant are two different things. I could read all the music theory in the world, and learn how to read music, but I’d still be tone deaf. I haven’t seen much to indicate he has a deep knowledge of science, but then I haven’t seen any howlers either, so I withhold judgment. (I haven’t seen the thread on pheromes.) I have seen a lack of understanding of hypothesis generation and testing, and even why that is a good thing to do, so I stand behind my accusation of tone deafness. Actually you made that assumption about me. I never once disputed that hypothesis testing was a good thing to do. Not once. > [@](#): > > Certainly not! Aristotle was neither ignorant nor superstitious, but his method of reasoning about the world was badly flawed, and led to error. That is in no way an insult - I doubt either you or I could have done better (or as well) living when he did. Saying someone is wrong is not saying they are stupid. May you be successful enough that future generations may say such a thing about you. > [@](#): > > Nonetheless, I’m sure science like stuff did get done, but I’m speaking of a formal scientific method understood as a method, and not just one of a set of tools to explore the world. Mary Shelley may have been writing science fiction, but only Gernsback’s authors know they were writing science fiction, to use an analogy. The tools that you call “Critical Thinking Skills” were assembled over a very long period of time. > [@](#): > > Actually I think “falsehoods” is harsh, sounding intentional. I’d say errors, since they made the best guesses they could. They also did some damn fine engineering. Besides your example, consider the Roman water system and the sophisticated plumbing found in Pompeii, something that would not be recreated for about 1800 years. Science does not produce knowledge where none was made before - it accelerates the production of knowledge by providing a means to weed out false paths and to better exploit productive ones. Modern science is still the best guesses that we can make. We are certainly more enlightened now than we were 1000 years ago, just as we will be more enlightened in 1000 years, and many of the ideas that you find completely reasonable will be considered quaint. > [@](#): > > Ancient “science” never got tested against the real world, but ancient engineering did. If you made swords, and your customers got killed by losing to a better one, you tended to try to find a better solution! Not so if you think that heavier objects fall faster and don’t think that testing this hypothesis has anything to do with science. Ancient science never got tested against the real world? Huh? Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/50 "2006-01-17T20:30:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Too late for that you certified Joker, go read _Illuminatus_ to finish your whoosh. Illuminatus is fictional, and “Cosmic Trigger” is autobiographical of about 15 years of Robert Anton Wilson’s life preceding the writing of that book. Now, I wonder why the book would get reviews such as this one: > [@](#): > > “What great physicist hides behind the mask of Wilson?” – New Scientist I guess they got whooshed too. Just like Henry Miller. "We’ve needed this for a long time " --Henry Miller, author of Tropic of Cancer r I wonder why all of us are being whooshed by this book, but you’re such a genius that you were able to see through it without managing to even understand the subject matter. Erek ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/51 "2006-01-17T20:57:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Illuminatus is fictional, and “Cosmic Trigger” is autobiographical of about 15 years of Robert Anton Wilson’s life preceding the writing of that book. > > Now, I wonder why the book would get reviews such as this one: > > I guess they got whooshed too. Just like Henry Miller. > > "We’ve needed this for a long time " --Henry Miller, author of Tropic of Cancer r > > I wonder why all of us are being whooshed by this book, but you’re such a genius that you were able to see through it without managing to even understand the subject matter. > > Erek Only taking into account how gullible he was for The Mothman Prophecies is enough to show how you will remain the same. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/52 "2006-01-17T21:04:03Z")
You’re full of shit. Don’t let anybody ever tell you different. Erek ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/53 "2006-01-17T21:36:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > You’re full of shit. Don’t let anybody ever tell you different. > > Erek Too late for that too, you context codpiece. Others already told me different in this thread. And while this is about the movie, this site points to what I knew before, and shows how gullible Wilson was for believing John Keel (the source of this nonsense): [http://www.net-monster.com/movie\_mothmanprophecies.html](http://www.net-monster.com/movie_mothmanprophecies.html) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/54 "2006-01-17T21:38:47Z")
He didn’t believe the Mothman Prophecies. He was speculating on the idea of infinite possibilities and wondering whether or not it’s possible that every possibility exists in it’s own alternate timeline, and therefore could it be possible that the Mothman Prophecies were true in one timeline, and only partially true in another. But I’m so glad you feel intellectually superior over it. As long as you’ve got something to stroke your own ego about. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/55 "2006-01-17T21:55:20Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > He didn’t believe the Mothman Prophecies. He was speculating on the idea of infinite possibilities and wondering whether or not it’s possible that every possibility exists in it’s own alternate timeline, and therefore could it be possible that the Mothman Prophecies were true in one timeline, and only partially true in another. > > But I’m so glad you feel intellectually superior over it. As long as you’ve got something to stroke your own ego about. Grasping at straws. Sad and pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/56 "2006-01-17T21:58:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > He was speculating on the idea of infinite possibilities and wondering whether or not it’s possible that every possibility exists in it’s own alternate timeline, and therefore could it be possible that the Mothman Prophecies were true in one timeline, and only partially true in another. I agree. A talking mattress told me so. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/57 "2006-01-17T22:26:35Z")
**GIGObuster** , have a Prozac. You’re free to think **mswas** is an idiot - why are you so damned mad about it? I’m just not getting it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/58 "2006-01-17T23:13:17Z")
> [@bup](#): > > **GIGObuster** , have a Prozac. > > You’re free to think **mswas** is an idiot - why are you so damned mad about it? I’m just not getting it. > [@Gary Larson](#): > > We know they’re idiots, gentlemen, the question remains, what _kind_ of idiots are they? Did I say I was mad? 🙂 mswas is a riot, after all that, I’m not taking seriously, I needed to be sure where he was coming from! It is important to remember that Robert Anton Wilson himself has long lampooned and criticized new age beliefs. Seeing so called mystics go off the rail defending what is not true in this universe (I’m open to other universes) is amusing to say the least. IOW, you really don’t want him to face the really mad \*\*Skeptirati \*\* from the other timeline, believe me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/59 "2006-01-17T23:19:52Z")
Pressed reply too soon: > [@bup](#): > > **GIGObuster** , have a Prozac. > > You’re free to think **mswas** is an idiot - why are you so damned mad about it? I’m just not getting it. > [@Gary Larson](#): > > “We know they’re idiots, gentlemen, the question remains, what _kind_ of idiots are they?” Did I say I was mad? 🙂 \*\*mswas \*\* is a riot, after all that, I’m not taking him seriously. I needed to be sure where he was coming from! It is important to remember that Robert Anton Wilson himself has long lampooned and criticized new age beliefs. Seeing so-called mystics go off the rail defending what is not true in this universe (I’m open to other universes) is amusing to say the least. IOW, you really don’t want him to face the really mad \*\*Skeptirati \*\* from the other timeline, believe me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/60 "2006-01-17T23:41:26Z")
I can’t really form any sort of respect for **mswas** any more. After dealing with crap like [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6778233&postcount=97) in the [racist](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=343277&page=2&pp=50&highlight=mswas) thread that lead to the [pheromone](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354455&highlight=mswas) thread: > [@mswas](#): > > My obsession with pheromones is that I am correct quite simply. Pheromones are one of the signifiers of attraction. We are attracted to someone we want to mate with, this is a genetic imperative telling us that we believe we have found a suitable mate. There are other factors that weigh into it, but pheromones are not simply random. Our DNA is completely unique, but it isn’t random. People have a scent that signifies who they are, it is determined by their particular hormonal and chemical makeup, which is determined by DUH…DUH…DUH genetics and culture. > > My obsession with pheromones is that I am not saying something in the slightest bit radical. And then after a few rounds of scientific jabs and a few logical haymakers, the truth really comes out. > [@mswas](#): > > So I induced that if our genes give us a certain bone structure type, a certain skin color, a certain consistency in our hair, then maybe that would affect our scent as well He starts off acting as if there is some accredited basis for his claim but it turns out to be a hypothesis based on absolutely no data. If he’d come out with this at first, it’d be a lot easier to accept than his continuous claims of being right only to grudgingly admit he _might not_ be correct. How do you debate with someone who fabricates their side of the arguement? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301.md?page=4)