# Synchronicity a la mode with mswas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301 "2006-01-17T02:34:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/121 "2006-01-19T22:28:21Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Since existence is formless, in what sense is knowing everything different from knowing nothing? Isn’t separating it into chunks denying its essential nature? It’s not really different from knowing nothing. Seperating it into chunks is forming my character, like in D&D. It’s not really denying it’s essential nature, it’s essential nature is still what it is, and I still know what it is, I seperate it into chunks because if I didn’t I wouldn’t exist, it’s my purpose for existing. I like to play the game with you all. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/122 "2006-01-19T22:42:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Your mind does not exist in your head, it is your entire body, for without the sensory input the cross-referencer is pointless. Surely then my mind is more than my body, for there is no sensory input without my environment. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/123 "2006-01-19T22:45:34Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > As for **tomndebb** he keeps talking about the strawman atheist I am building. I am not building a strawman atheist. I can point to exactly who I mean in each case when I am constructing my argument. I am taking my cues from real atheists who professed a certain belief. **Der Trihs** and **GIGObuster** in this thread, and you in others. It’s not a straw man, both of them have said straight up that if people discovered things prior to the advent of science it was by accident. The argument I’ve been making this whole time is that it’s still that way, we still discover things by accident, the only thing science has changed is how quickly we identify our accidents. Lie, I said before that I’m an agnostic and I think other universes are possible, And I also mentioned before that the ancients were practical people, even you had to accept that writing was not a mystic thing, but mostly a way to keep business and bureaucracy going. > [@mswas](#): > > What I see is that New Agers and other Spiritualists/Religionists have a metaphorical language that works very well when dealing with someone of their type, but it sounds ludicrous to anyone that doesn’t understand the lingo. If only it was that! The problem is that even after evidence was bought forth you still attempted to mislead others about Newton (with insults no less) and other items. > [@mswas](#): > > Then they come in and talk to someone like you, and you bash their understanding of the subject matter because you want them to prove that ‘fairies’ exist. The thing that I think YOU need to understand is that fairies most definitely exist, but what they are, and the mechanism for their existance might not be what you are trying to conceive of them as. You have an idea of fairies in your mind that do not exist, but someone else might have another idea. Their experience is no more or less subjective than yours, and what they experience is 100% real for them, that doesn’t mean that it will translate as real into your world, and expecting them to conform to your method of analysis is just as delusional of you as it would be for them to expect you to conceive of the metaphorical ‘sprite’. Think of what a sprite is in a computer, it’s a visual representation of a program. That’s what a real sprite is too. It might exist purely in the matrix of that person’s own subjective encoding, but that doesn’t make it not real. The software is different for every person like Joseph Campbell used to say, Every religion is true in the sense of being a metaphor of the human and cosmic mystery. I have arrived to the conclusion after seeing the evidence that many mystic things may be possible in other universes, but in this universe even the ancients had to be practical and then mystic. Nowadays, non-mystic solutions are more reliable and should be preferred. > [@mswas](#): > > Something that I would contend is that everything that is alive is conscious and communication with it is possible. I have communicated with trees, but it’s not the same as communicating with a human, nor would I ever try to tell you that it is. Many people have a limited conception of consciousness, and will scoff at anyone who does not fit within that limited conception. However, a tree is organic, and it does ‘feel’ things and interpret it into the subjective experience of being that tree. Your particular physical form is unique in the way it processes the energy that flows through it, but none of the processes that humans have are unique to humans, the only thing that is unique to humans is the combination in which the processes happen, and how the WHOLE process of being human is enacted. I’m open to mystic evidence, if one believes that one has to consider the worth of a person holistically, what does it say of you that so far you have proven to be unreliable, misguided and insulting? Do we have to deduce then that mysticism causes a person to be that bad? I don’t think so, but the more whoppers you post, the more we will have to conclude that mysticism should be avoided. It is nice to believe in Neverland, but one has to grow up. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/124 "2006-01-19T22:57:13Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > As for **tomndebb** he keeps talking about the strawman atheist I am building. I am not building a strawman atheist. I can point to exactly who I mean in each case when I am constructing my argument. And yet, your posts are filled with blanket condemnations of “atheists” and “skeptics” when it (now) appears that you simply had problems with particular individuals. On each occasion that I have referred to your strawman argument, it has been because you created a large opponent to knock down out of the grass and chaff of individuals that surrounded a group while claiming that it was the group that was in error. You are correct that you have difficulty expressing yourself. My response to that is that you should either make a much more serious effort to express your beliefs clearly or should you should accept the brickbats you earn by expressing yourself unclearly instead of trying to blame other people for failing to understand your muddy expressions–and your broad and illfounded condemnations. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/125 "2006-01-19T23:27:08Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I do not believe that objectivity exists. There is an object to be certain, but each one of us has our subjective interpretation of things, and the idea that one person is doing it objectively, is absolutely absurd. I do believe though, that the person who embraces the fact that he cannot escape his own subjectivity is at an advantage toward properly interpreting the object than one who hasn’t made it past that point. > > Erek _(underlining mine - **kd99** )_ Please clarify. If you don’t believe objectivity exists, how can you believe that a proper interpretation of an object can be achieved, let alone that one person can have an advantage over another in achieving it? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/126 "2006-01-19T23:32:54Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > Surely then my mind is more than my body, for there is no sensory input without my environment. I agree ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/127 "2006-01-19T23:39:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Please clarify. If you don’t believe objectivity exists, how can you believe that a proper interpretation of an object can be achieved, let alone that one person can have an advantage over another in achieving it? Well to me objectivity is an ideal that cannot actually be reached. One refines themself and comes closer to the mark, but it’s like throwing a dart and hitting the atom in the direct center of the bullseye with the atom at the furthermost tip of the dart. You can come really fucking close, but being able to hit that atom to atom every time, well I am not sure that I believe that anyone can do that. Some people are refined, and better at it than others, but by virtue of having a perspective, you have released the ability to ever be truly objective about anything. **tomndebb** I have generally qualified my ‘blanket condemnations’. “A certain type of atheist”, “Fake Skeptics”. I never said there is anything wrong with skepticism not once, I said that Der Trihs is not a skeptic because he makes assumptions about things that he does not understand. Come on adapt with me. I’ve updated my arguments through these arguments. You may or may not have noticed, but how approach them has changed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/128 "2006-01-19T23:43:31Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I have arrived to the conclusion after seeing the evidence that many mystic things may be possible in other universes, but in this universe even the ancients had to be practical and then mystic. Nowadays, non-mystic solutions are more reliable and should be preferred. Herein lies the rub. The term “non-mystic solutions” is nonsense to my ears, it’s meaningless semantics. What does it mean? What’s a Mystic solution? Mysticism provides questions, not answers. Read “Knowing How to Know” by Idries Shah, then come back to me and we’ll talk, until then I consider this subject closed with you. You could be interesting to debate on the subject, but you need to broaden your knowledge of the subject a little bit. Erek ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/129 "2006-01-19T23:52:15Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Herein lies the rub. The term “non-mystic solutions” is nonsense to my ears, it’s meaningless semantics. What does it mean? What’s a Mystic solution? Mysticism provides questions, not answers. > > Read “Knowing How to Know” by Idries Shah, then come back to me and we’ll talk, until then I consider this subject closed with you. You could be interesting to debate on the subject, but you need to broaden your knowledge of the subject a little bit. The evidence in this thread shows that it is the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/130 "2006-01-19T23:59:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The evidence in this thread shows that it is the other way around. So is it important for you to ‘win’ or is it important for you to understand the position of the person you have spent so much time arguing with? ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/131 "2006-01-20T00:07:29Z")
**mswas** , either your cognitive faculties have been destroyed by drugs, or you’re a would-be comedian who shouldn’t give up his day-job. That’s all the “understanding” of your position that I need. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/132 "2006-01-20T00:33:28Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So is it important for you to ‘win’ or is it important for you to understand the position of the person you have spent so much time arguing with? You are silly, I also don’t think you really learned anything, as Idries Shah said in “Knowing How to Know”: Pharaphrased: “Finding people who have not developed or suppressed their capacity to enjoy humor are also without the capacity to learn (including the lessons of the Suni)” The moment I saw in the other thread that you ignored the rest of the post on Newton, simply because I made a joke on Harry Potter, then I knew who you really are. Holistically speaking, you really are a fixer upper. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/133 "2006-01-20T00:46:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You are silly, I also don’t think you really learned anything, as Idries Shah said in “Knowing How to Know”: > > Pharaphrased: > “Finding people who have not developed or suppressed their capacity to enjoy humor are also without the capacity to learn (including the lessons of the Suni)” > > The moment I saw in the other thread that you ignored the rest of the post on Newton, simply because I made a joke on Harry Potter, then I knew who you really are. > > Holistically speaking, you really are a fixer upper. Fuck, I’ve been schooled. Thank you. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/134 "2006-01-20T00:58:23Z")
**GIGObuster** Ok, I have more respect for you then. I read you all wrong. I went back and reread what you posted about Newton, the post I ignored where you made the Harry Potter references. It was one of the more interesting posts in that thread actually. So then I’m sorry for how I treated you before. Let’s be friends ok? 🆒 Also, I don’t mind breaking down my biases all that much either, if one can manage to help me figure it out. Basically there are a whole lot of assumptions that people make that don’t satisfy me about the results of more esoteric pursuits. I am not certain that Newton’s alchemy didn’t bear fruit. I am not even certain that alchemy is bullshit. I am agnostic on the subject. Erek ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/135 "2006-01-20T00:59:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Pharaphrased: > “Finding people who have not developed or suppressed their capacity to enjoy humor are also without the capacity to learn (including the lessons of the Suni)” That should be: “People who have not developed or suppressed their capacity to enjoy humor are also without the capacity to learn (including the lessons of the Suni)” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/136 "2006-01-20T01:30:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **GIGObuster** Ok, I have more respect for you then. I read you all wrong. I went back and reread what you posted about Newton, the post I ignored where you made the Harry Potter references. It was one of the more interesting posts in that thread actually. So then I’m sorry for how I treated you before. > > Let’s be friends ok? 🆒 > > Also, I don’t mind breaking down my biases all that much either, if one can manage to help me figure it out. Basically there are a whole lot of assumptions that people make that don’t satisfy me about the results of more esoteric pursuits. I am not certain that Newton’s alchemy didn’t bear fruit. I am not even certain that alchemy is bullshit. I am agnostic on the subject. > > Erek Ok, as far as this thread goes. 🙂 \* I also have to face my own limitations: as I said before, my grammar is a crime against nature, but it is what you know what counts in this board. \*[concerned hijack] [sub]\*_Out of your openness here, I will not let you have it in the Moral Relativism in the United State Foreign Policy \* thread on the pit… As both the left and the right are shooting you down there, please take this advice: you are not getting any friends with that OP! The Iraq war is only related to the war on terror by the propaganda of the administration._ [/sub] [/c h] ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/137 "2006-01-20T03:49:15Z")
Be careful about thinking you “won”. You got me to break something down, that doesn’t mean I agree with everything you have said, only that I acknowledge that you are a more worthy opponent than I gave you credit for. 😛 > [@GIGObuster](#): > > \*[concerned hijack] > [sub]\*_Out of your openness here, I will not let you have it in the Moral Relativism in the United State Foreign Policy \* thread on the pit… As both the left and the right are shooting you down there, please take this advice: you are not getting any friends with that OP! The Iraq war is only related to the war on terror by the propaganda of the administration._ [/sub] > [/c h] I’m unconcerned. Fuck em. Let em stew, they can think whatever they want. Osama bin Laden is no more a villain than the average American. The can realize that their divine right to have stuff does not supersede the rights of other nations. They can realize that we TRAINED Osama bin Laden. We created our own mess. We have a democratically elected government so we have no-one we can blame but ourselves for our own ignorance of the corporate interests that have hijacked our government. Until they realize that the Society of Death(Skull and Bones) runs this country, and they overthrow them by any means necessary, they deserve what they get, and I’m going to continue to point it out to them. The American dream is everyone else’s nightmare, and the saddest part about it, is that it’s completely unnecessary. So fuck every person who thinks they are morally superior to Osama bin Laden. I don’t care if I make friends or not. We cannot continue to enjoy our standard of living at the expense of other nations. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/138 "2006-01-20T04:20:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > The can realize that their divine right to have stuff does not supersede the rights of other nations. Which nation’s rights is Osama fighting for again? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/139 "2006-01-20T04:23:11Z")
Just a reminder, folks, the thread for yelling at **mswas** ’s idiotic politics is over [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354925) This is the thread for yelling at him for his idiotic philosophies. Let’s try to keep it orderly. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301/140 "2006-01-20T04:25:30Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Which nation’s rights is Osama fighting for again? There you go again, trying to fit the middle east into a western framework. That’s what got us into this mess, expecting them to conform to our idea of a nation state. It’s never worked, that’s why their regimes keep collapsing. How’s that Miller, I brought it back to idiotic philosophy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synchronicity-a-la-mode-with-mswas/340301.md?page=8)