# Synthetic Oil required? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619 "2020-07-17T23:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/21 "2020-07-19T13:16:57Z")
OP here. This is why I am still confused. The Manual/Warrenty says: “For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395”. Does conventional oil meet that standard? Or is that a vague/legalese way of saying use synthetic oil? Thinking later, I thought the Dodge dealership isn’t really the definitive answer, since the service department of the local dealership is not the Chrysler Corporation, they just want to upset me as much as jiffy lube. Not to mention tryin to sell me a air filter every 5000 miles. If Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep have all of sudden decided all vehicles are required to use $120 oil changes I’d think they should be more explicit about that. I’m still not interested in the synthetic vs conventional oils debate. Just a factual warranty question. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/22 "2020-07-19T13:18:41Z")
upsell not upset ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/23 "2020-07-19T13:27:44Z")
In addition to the warranty issue, Jiffy Lube guy told me I’d “blow my engine” if I didn’t use Full Synthetic. I took this as slimy sales tactic. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/24 "2020-07-19T13:32:12Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > This is why I am still confused. The Manual/Warrenty says: > > “For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395”. > > Does conventional oil meet that standard? Or is that a vague/legalese way of saying use synthetic oil? > > Thinking later, I thought the Dodge dealership isn’t really the definitive answer, since the service department of the local dealership is not the Chrysler Corporation, they just want to upset me as much as jiffy lube. Not to mention tryin to sell me a air filter every 5000 miles. This has been answered. People kindly provided links for non-synthetic motor oils that comply with the manufacturer requirements. It’s not clear to me what the oil change intervals are but you should follow whatever is recommended in the manual. Neither the dealership nor Jiffy Lube is trying to upset you. They’re not thinking about you. They don’t care what you do with your car. You asked them for their advice and they told you what they tell all their customers with similar vehicles. Replacing air filters regularly is a good idea but I doubt anybody recommends that you change it every 5000 miles. But you can do it yourself if you want to save the labor costs. Change your cabin air filter too. It’s a trivial thing to do in 99% of all vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/25 "2020-07-19T13:58:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Neither the dealership nor Jiffy Lube is trying to upset you. They’re not thinking about you. They don’t care what you do with your car. You asked them for their advice and they told you what they tell all their customers with similar vehicles. They are, however, likely trying to upsell him. They charge more for synthetic: > [@kswiss](#): > > the price is about 3x a regular oil change. Meanwhile, full synthetic motor oil does not typically cost three times as much as conventional (in my neck of the woods, synthetic is usually within 15-20%), nor does it take three times as much labor (it takes about the same time), so the additional amount is mostly profit. If Jiffy Lube can sell a customer higher-profit-margin item instead of a lower, of course they’re going to do so, as that is part of the manager’s evaluation and hence compensation. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/26 "2020-07-19T14:03:10Z")
You have a lot more confidence in the oil change industry than I do. I am aware that air filters, cabin filters, fuel filters, coolant/antifreeze, etc need to be maintained. I am also aware of the intervals those things should be attended to. Many, not all, oil change places go through this farce of bringing you out and showing you your air filter and saying “well if it were me I’d change it” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/27 "2020-07-19T14:14:24Z")
Okay then. If you’re on top of all that maintenance info, then a simple “No, thanks”, will take care of the show-and-sell farce. I don’t think they’ll appreciate you bringing your own oil into most shops because these are businesses, not not-for-profit operations. So ask them for the specific brand/type of oil that you feel is needed and have them service your car to your requirements. I think you’ll find the cost of service using dyno oil will not be 1/3 of the price of the synthetic oil once all is said and done. Here is a search result comparing common [national oil change shops comparing conventional and synthetic.](https://reviews.cheapism.com/valvoline-vs-jiffy-lube-vs-walmart/) I don’t know where you’re getting your 3x the price number. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/28 "2020-07-19T14:14:49Z")
Here is a copy of MS-6395 [http://www.kmn-lubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20135408\_342\_ChryslerMS6395-Supreme-05-03-13.pdf](http://www.kmn-lubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/20135408_342_ChryslerMS6395-Supreme-05-03-13.pdf) Scroll down to Page 6 of 9, Section 8. It has a list of all approved engine oils with their part numbers. For example, Valvoline 5W20 has three part numbers : VV 1740, VV 3170, VV 9270 VV 1740 : Valvoline Daily Protection 5W-20 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil ([https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-daily-protection-5w-20-synthetic-blend-motor-oil-1-quart-797974-vv174/8080021-P?searchTerm=vv174](https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-daily-protection-5w-20-synthetic-blend-motor-oil-1-quart-797974-vv174/8080021-P?searchTerm=vv174)) VV 3170 : Valvoline Durablend Synthetic Blend Motor Oil ([Amazon.com](https://www.amazon.com/Durablend-Synthetic-Blend-5W20-Qt/dp/B00C75S238)) VV 9270 : Valvoline SynPower Advanced Full Synthetic 5W-20 Motor Oil ([Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance](https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/valvoline-synpower-advanced-full-synthetic-5w-20-motor-oil-1-quart-vv927/8080067-P?searchTerm=VV927)) From the warranty perspective, you should use only the oils certified in the MS-6395. Whether any other synthetic or conventional oil meets that specification, with 100% certainty, will require tests that are well beyond the price of your car. Also note that places like Jiffy Lube make you sign paperwork that says you are responsible to select the oil for your car - they are not legally responsible to ensure that the oil meets the car manufacturer’s standards. So if you want to get real serious, then change your oil by yourself or take it to the dealer. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/29 "2020-07-19T14:43:46Z")
The price was 110.00 for the “platinum” full synthetic oil change versus 34.99 for the conventional oil change, which they advertise heavily. So I rounded up to 3X. I don’t recall suggesting bringing my own oil. I’d like to get an honest answer from any oil change place about what type of oil change I need for warranty purposes. I’d prefer not to have to say “no thanks” to a fraudulent suggestion that I need a new air filter. I’d prefer that the technician make an honest evaluation of my air air filter, and recommend whether or not I need a new on. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/30 "2020-07-19T14:58:10Z")
I know you didn’t suggest bringing your own oil. But given your sensitivity to the price and the suspicion that they may not have the correct type of oil for your car, I would understand the temptation to eliminate the variables and overcharge. Let’s be practical here. You’re not driving some exotic sports car or classic. It’s a 2019 Dodge. Pretty much any oil change shop will have the kind of oil and parts for your scheduled vehicle maintenance intervals. Now that you’ve received some very good information - as have I, if I’m honest - you can avoid the up sell and just go with what you know your car requires. If Jiffy Lube is too much of a pressure sell kind of place for you, visit a local shop and ask them if they stock the oil you need. Chances are they do (again, 2019 Dodge). They will appreciate your business and you’ll be sticking it to Jiffy Lube by not given them your money and dealing with their bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/31 "2020-07-19T15:12:14Z")
Thanks all, While I am not sure I have gotten a definitive answer. I have at least gotten enough factual information about oil changes to let me make my own decisions going forward. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/32 "2020-07-19T15:22:16Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > While I am not sure I have gotten a definitive answer What’s the unanswered factual answer, you were looking for ? ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/33 "2020-07-19T16:10:42Z")
Will I void my warranty and/or “blow my engine” if I don’t use full synthetic oil per jiffy lube and the local Dodge dealership? I have received various opinions on the pros/cons of synthetic oil. Various opinions on what the manual says. I did follow up with the local Dodge dealer (who said I do need full synthetic) asking to perspectively tell me where in the manual it says that. I have not gotten a reply. So I am left with a lot of nice people on the internet telling me they interpret the Dodge Charger manual as not requiring synthetic oil, some who tell me I should get synthetic anyway. Jiffy Lube and the local Dodge dealer insisting its required. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/34 "2020-07-19T17:01:25Z")
I think the easy answer is that a synthetic oil will comply with the manufacturer requirements as specified in the manual. The more nuanced answer is that there are some conventional and semi-synthetic blends that also comply with the manufacturer specs. The dealership has to service a broad spectrum of cars and it is not practical for them to keep a large inventory of different motor oils. Particularly when they purchase oil in bulk quantities, not in quarts, dispensing it through the shop oil delivery system at each station. So your options are: a) you buy and change your own oil, or, b) find an independent dealer that will stock the conventional oil that you specify (or use the one you bring), or, c) use the full synthetic oil and pay the premium price for peace of mind and full manufacturer compliance I understand that you want the most cost effective solution for your needs, however, insisting that shops try to accommodate your specific needs when a more cost effective and perfectly manufacturer compliant option is available to them and the overwhelming majority of cars they service daily is not a reasonable expectation. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/35 "2020-07-19T17:18:22Z")
c) use the full synthetic oil and pay the premium price for peace of mind and full manufacturer compliance where in the manual does it say to use full synthetic oil for full manufacturer compliance? ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/36 "2020-07-19T17:26:52Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > where in the manual does it say to use full synthetic oil for full manufacturer compliance? Here is the 2015 Dodge All Vehicles Generic Warranty. [Dodge Warranty Coverage | Owners Manual, Powertrain & More](https://www.dodge.com/crossbrand/warranty/pdf/2015-Dodge-Generic_Warranty-1st.pdf) You will have a warranty document for your car too Page 13, Section 3.3 (Bolding mine) “Your warranties don’t cover the costs of repairing damage caused by poor or improper maintenance. Nor do they cover damage caused by the use of contaminated fuels, or by the use of fuels, oils, lubricants, cleaners or fluids **other than those recommended** in your Owner’s Manual.” Among the approved MS-6395 oils, most are fully synthetic, some are blend and some are conventional. If you use the oils specified in the MS-6395, your warranty will not be void due to the use of incorrect oil. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/37 "2020-07-19T17:35:03Z")
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395. To a common consumer, this would seem to mean a regular oil change. Not some special oil that the common consumer would be at risk of not following and voiding the warranty. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/38 "2020-07-19T17:52:58Z")
Hello XXXXX, My name is XXXX with XXXX Chrysler Jeep Dodge Service. I received your inquiry regarding oil change pricing on a 2020 Dodge Charger. Yes Synthetic oil is required for that particular vehicle. Oil type 5W40. The price at our location for an oil change on that vehicle is $97.49 plus tax and shop supplies. If you have any additional inquiries or would like to schedule for this service, please let me know or give us a call back at XXXXX. Thank you for choosing XXXX Chrysler Jeep Dodge Service. Have a great weekend! Please note: When replying, please “Reply All” so that someone can get back to you as soon as possible. XXXXX Phone Specialist XXXXXXXXXX ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/39 "2020-07-19T17:58:09Z")
So is XXXX lying to me? (redacted by me) best I have gathered from most replies, synthetic oil might be “recommended” but not “required”. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619/40 "2020-07-19T18:23:11Z")
Oil Change place reply, just standard customer service BS… Good afternoon XXXXX We wanted to reach out to you this and apologize for the pressure you received at our XXXXX location. We try our best to not pressure our guest and we will always do what our guest request. It is your vehicle and your choice of products and services you would like us to preform. We will make sure to correct this action and take this matter seriously. Our apologizes again XXXX and we hope you continue to use our locations in the future. If there is anything we can do to make it right please reach out. We appreciate your feedback. Thank you XXXXXX [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/synthetic-oil-required/915619.md?page=3)