# Syria: Putin succeeds where Obama failed **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884 "2016-12-30T00:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/61 "2016-12-30T19:26:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I miss the old days, when Syria was a _Soviet_ client-state. Instead of the good new days of being a client-state for the Russian Federation? šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/62 "2016-12-30T20:00:07Z")
eta: opps, missed the humour ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/63 "2016-12-30T20:06:51Z")
Another great success for Putin is turning Turkey; a year ago they were on the verge of war with Turkey shooting down a Russian plane. Now we have Russia, Iran and a NATO ally carving up Syria with all western powers absentia. No wonder Netanyahuā€™s freaking out, the geo-politics hit the fan even before the UN resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/64 "2016-12-30T21:10:18Z")
The ā€œsuccessā€ of Putin with the Turkey has one word to explain: YPG. It is the Kurdsā€¦ who are not part of this ceasefire so called , already with the airstrips violating it a la Russeā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/65 "2016-12-30T21:16:12Z")
putin is bailing out a formerly KGB/soviet supported thug-ally so none of the moselm dominated areas in whats left of Russia gets the same idea like Chechnya did what to me makes this treasonous is assads been known to support terrorist groups that are anti us Its just one bastard supporting another bastard in the end ā€¦ like china supporting north korea If bin laden was still alive id of worked out a deal (to a point)to revive the mujahedeen and harass them all for 50 years ā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![jacobson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@jacobson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobson)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/66 "2016-12-30T22:26:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > [Cease-fire brokered by Russia and Turkey begins across Syria](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/cease-fire-to-begin-across-syria-starting-at-midnight-syrian-army-says/2016/12/29/91ca960c-cdbe-11e6-a747-d03044780a02_story.html) > > Another legacy Obama leaves behind, having presided over the most inept adminstration to deal with foreign affairs in a long long time. Liberals may excoriate GW Bush but at least he acted on his convictions. Obama just dithered. And dithered. And dithered. > > Honestly can anyone here defend Obamaā€™s actions, or lack of them, in the Middle East? I hope at the very least that all here will celebrate this ceasefire. Itā€™s precarious but I think this one will last and lead to a settlement, if only because the rebels can no longer look to the West for support. Itā€™s clear that Turkey has accepted that Assad will stay as long as they get a buffer zone in Northern Syria against the Kurds. GH Bush iin the book he wrote with Scrocraf said he didnā€™t go into Baghdad as some wanted, because he was warned that the troubles we are haiving now would happen, He was told it would arouse all the wack jobs in the area, and that is what happened. I believe GW was given false advice. When GW was asked if he had consulted his father, I read that his reply was" I asked a higher father". ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/67 "2016-12-30T23:49:20Z")
I imagine once this current cease-fire fails, the OP will start another thread blaming Obama for that, too. It will fail. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/68 "2016-12-30T23:53:41Z")
Itā€™s such a good thing that murderous dictator Assad has his power back, isnā€™t it, **OP**? And it was a terrible thing that Obama and SecState Clinton actually tried to help get rid of Khadafy. Itā€™s a brand new morning, now that Trump will put a stop to all of that ā€œAmerica is the Beacon of Freedomā€ nonsense. Even Reagan would be appalled. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/69 "2016-12-31T02:34:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Itā€™s such a good thing that murderous dictator Assad has his power back, isnā€™t it, **OP**? And it was a terrible thing that Obama and SecState Clinton actually tried to help get rid of Khadafy. Itā€™s a brand new morning, now that Trump will put a stop to all of that ā€œAmerica is the Beacon of Freedomā€ nonsense. > > Even Reagan would be appalled. Hereā€™s the deal: there was never anything the United States, particularly under Obama, was going to do to change the outcome. Obama was the one who tried to grow a pair and talked about ā€œred linesā€ ā€“ and did nothing. Not that I blame Obama ā€“ I donā€™t. I think Obama had the pulse of the country by not committing himself to another long, drawn out conflict that the US couldnā€™t win. But thatā€™s also what made it frustrating to watch him at times. He knew the US needed to lower its profile, but then he started talking himself into a conflict against Assad, and talked himself (at Hillaryā€™s urging) into getting involved in Libya. Obama was elected because we thought heā€™d stay out of wars, not because we thought heā€™d get us into new conflicts. The reverse side of that coin is that people like Putin, Assad, Erdogan, and now Duterte know that Obamaā€™s a softy. And they exploited him for it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/70 "2016-12-31T02:35:57Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > putin is bailing out a formerly KGB/soviet supported thug-ally so none of the moselm dominated areas in whats left of Russia gets the same idea like Chechnya did > > what to me makes this treasonous is assads been known to support terrorist groups that are anti us > > Its just one bastard supporting another bastard in the end ā€¦ like china supporting north korea > > If bin laden was still alive id of worked out a deal (to a point)to revive the mujahedeen and harass them all for 50 years ā€¦ The US supports Saudi Arabia, which supports Al Qaida and ISIS. Just sayinā€™. ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/71 "2017-01-03T20:17:30Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Liberals may excoriate GW Bush but at least he acted on his convictions. Obama just dithered. And dithered. And dithered. > > Honestly can anyone here defend Obamaā€™s actions, or lack of them, in the Middle East? How many trillions of dollars and American lives did GW spend to wage the Iraq War? How many trillions of dollars and American lives did Obama spend on Syria? Did Russia act out of concern for the average Syrian or to maintain political advantage in the region? In answering these questions you will understand the ā€œLiberalā€ thought process. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/72 "2017-01-03T20:33:07Z")
I am sure this ceasefire is much likelier to succeed, since far more people in Syria are now dead, and dead people donā€™t shoot back. The fall of Aleppo isnā€™t a ā€œceasefire,ā€ itā€™s a military victory for an evil dictator and his Russian backers. Characterizing slaughtering people and declaring the wasteland a peace a successful ā€œceasefireā€ is a perversion. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/73 "2017-01-03T20:38:11Z")
The ceasefire isnā€™t restricted to Aleppo. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/74 "2017-01-03T20:56:38Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > putin is bailing out a formerly KGB/soviet supported thug-ally so none of the moselm dominated areas in whats left of Russia gets the same idea like Chechnya did > > what to me makes this treasonous is assads been known to support terrorist groups that are anti us > > Its just one bastard supporting another bastard in the end ā€¦ like china supporting north korea > > If bin laden was still alive id of worked out a deal (to a point)to revive the mujahedeen and harass them all for 50 years ā€¦ Assad ( or maybe Putin or both ) are _ **treasonous** _ to the USA ? Who Died and made the USA God ? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/75 "2017-01-03T21:20:53Z")
I think Putinā€™s just desperate to show the world Russia still deserves to sit at the grownupā€™s table, and show off Russian weapons to potential buyers. I donā€™t think bombing civilians haphazardly is winning over the hearts of the middle east, and heā€™s certainly not making friends among the Sunni. He probably wanted to rush in, save the day and rush back out, but the longer he stays the more expensive it is and the higher the Russian body count gets. Itā€™s illegal in Russia to report on the Russian death count, but the Russian people donā€™t have infinite patience and tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/76 "2017-01-03T22:26:46Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > [Cease-fire brokered by Russia and Turkey begins across Syria](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/cease-fire-to-begin-across-syria-starting-at-midnight-syrian-army-says/2016/12/29/91ca960c-cdbe-11e6-a747-d03044780a02_story.html) > > Another legacy Obama leaves behind, . . ā€¦ > [@aldiboronti](#): > > Because it is mainly Russiaā€™s work. Without their military muscle in support of Assad there would be no peace talks now. > [@aldiboronti](#): > > You donā€™t think there would be even greater and more horrific humanitarian crises if the war had gone on and on and on? I guess it depends on how many more lives youā€™re willing to sacrifice in order to topple Assad. Aside from the thug Putin bolstering the thug Assad, there does not appear to be any real difference between the results of Obamaā€™s actions and the result of Putinā€™s actions: (2 hours ago) [Syrian cease-fire crumbles as government forces advance around Damascus](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/syrian-rebels-threaten-peace-talks-pull-out-as-ceasefire-broken-near-damascus/2017/01/03/5956ae92-d191-11e6-a783-cd3fa950f2fd_story.html?utm_term=.0020fbd7eca2) (22 hours ago) [Syria rebels freeze talks on Russia-backed peace conference due to ceasefire violations](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-rebels-peace-negotiations-russia-moscow-kazakhstan-iran-a7506486.html) Obama pretty much failed, but trumpeting Putinā€™s ā€œsuccessā€ is like praising the ā€œsuccessā€ of the Soviet Union in moderating the Afghan civil war. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/77 "2017-01-03T22:56:23Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think Putinā€™s just desperate to show the world Russia still deserves to sit at the grownupā€™s table, and show off Russian weapons to potential buyers. I donā€™t think bombing civilians haphazardly is winning over the hearts of the middle east, and heā€™s certainly not making friends among the Sunni. He probably wanted to rush in, save the day and rush back out, but the longer he stays the more expensive it is and the higher the Russian body count gets. Itā€™s illegal in Russia to report on the Russian death count, but the Russian people donā€™t have infinite patience and tolerance. You understand the USA - and the west in general - is basically now excluded from shaping the future of Syria and much of the region. It isnā€™t Putin who is in any way ā€œdesperateā€. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/78 "2017-01-03T23:18:51Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think Putinā€™s just desperate to show the world Russia still deserves to sit at the grownupā€™s table, and show off Russian weapons to potential buyers. I donā€™t think bombing civilians haphazardly is winning over the hearts of the middle east, and heā€™s certainly not making friends among the Sunni. He probably wanted to rush in, save the day and rush back out, but the longer he stays the more expensive it is and the higher the Russian body count gets. Itā€™s illegal in Russia to report on the Russian death count, but the Russian people donā€™t have infinite patience and tolerance. I donā€™t think Putin is concerned about what the people in these countries think. Heā€™s not a big fan of democracy. But heā€™s demonstrated that the regimes in Middle Eastern countries can still count on Russian assistance to stay in power. I doubt Putin is very concerned about public opinion in Russia either - as long as the Russian army stays loyal to him. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/79 "2017-01-03T23:58:06Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > You understand the USA - and the west in general - is basically now excluded from shaping the future of Syria and much of the region. > > It isnā€™t Putin who is in any way ā€œdesperateā€. What is Russia going to do? Be friends with Assad and Iran? So? How is that different? Assad is on his way out, even if the US doesnā€™t do it. Who knows what Syria is going to look like two years from now, if there even is a Syria. I like that Putin is spending like a rich western power. He canā€™t really afford it. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884/80 "2017-01-04T00:08:16Z")
I donā€™t know what resources you generally rely on but the war is over, Assad won and the status quo wonā€™t change. Furthermore, Russia is emboldened, internationally respected and Putinā€™s domestic position is unassailable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syria-putin-succeeds-where-obama-failed/775884.md?page=5)