# T/F: Misinformation, ignorance, and fallacy is the bread and butter of the Republican party **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 6, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070 "2009-09-06T17:52:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/21 "2009-09-13T01:57:36Z")
Well, I sure do, the Japanese surrendered. ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/22 "2009-09-13T02:00:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You lose right there. Anytime you argue “I’m not a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, **but** ”, you establish yourself as a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. I said “typically.” I didn’t say “never.” 😃 But regardless, aren’t “extreme” views sometimes warranted? It’s simple probability that some things in this world can only be defined by terms that are “extreme.” Also, isn’t that diverting attention from my argument? My question explicitly asked for people to explain why my assessment is wrong: > [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > I realize that SD probably leans Democratic, but does anyone here disagree with what I just said about Republican political strategy? ---
**Author:** ![TheFatKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TheFatKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFatKid)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/23 "2009-09-13T02:03:43Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > Are any Republicans going to chime in here and refute my assertion? Unfortunately, it’s difficult to. That’s why the GOP has suffered such massive defections in the past year. We still have our champions, like General Powell, but they are few and far between. Believe me, this situation is just as worrisome to us – or even moreso – than it is to you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/24 "2009-09-13T02:39:09Z")
> [@Cagey Drifter](#): > > T/F: Misinformation, ignorance, and fallacy is the bread and butter of the Republican party [True](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/25 "2009-09-13T02:47:55Z")
The news is flushing through the intertubes even as we speak, “ABC caves in to Obama jackboots, changes story on crowd size…” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/26 "2009-09-13T02:50:21Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > I said “typically.” I didn’t say “never.” 😃 > > But regardless, aren’t “extreme” views sometimes warranted? It’s simple probability that some things in this world can only be defined by terms that are “extreme.” Also, isn’t that diverting attention from my argument? My question explicitly asked for people to explain why my assessment is wrong: Your argument boils down to: Eeeeww Republicans have cooties. I don’t like them. That’s a large part of the problem with politics today. An idea should stand on its own merits, regardless of which party proposes it. Instead, your side refuses to think Republicans have anything worth saying, simply because they are Republicans. The Republicans refuse to hear anything from Democrats, merely because they are Democrats. And the country is the worse therefor. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/27 "2009-09-13T02:52:07Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > Are any Republicans going to chime in here and refute my assertion? Nah, they’re too busy beating the “ACORN is teh suxxor” and “Obama is a Socialist!!” drums. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/28 "2009-09-13T02:54:59Z")
I don’t believe misinformation, ignorance and fallacy are the bread and butter of the GOP. I believe they’re its crack cocaine. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/29 "2009-09-13T03:00:24Z")
> [@Cagey\_Drifter](#): > > Are any Republicans going to chime in here and refute my assertion? I doubt they will come through to refute your assertions. It is likely they will come through with the childish ‘Democrats do it to argument’ and provide a few examples while ignoring how much more common it is on the republican side. ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/30 "2009-09-13T03:55:17Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Your argument boils down to: Eeeeww Republicans have cooties. I don’t like them. uh, no it doesn’t. > [@Oakminster](#): > > That’s a large part of the problem with politics today. An idea should stand on its own merits, regardless of which party proposes it. I agree with you. But doesn’t this imply that one can choose a side based on his assessment of the situation? > [@Oakminster](#): > > Instead, your side refuses to think Republicans have anything worth saying, simply because they are Republicans. The Republicans refuse to hear anything from Democrats, merely because they are Democrats. And the country is the worse therefor. No. I just have not been impressed with Republicans lately. And by “not impressed” I mean that I have been very disappointed with. You don’t need to get defensive. This is my view based on what I see and read. Maybe the most vocal mouthpieces of the Republican party (including TV hosts, radio personalities, and politicians) do not represent the thoughts of the “average” Republican. I suppose that is a possibility. Would you entertain that? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/31 "2009-09-13T04:16:50Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Do you have a cite for that factoid, because I doubt it. It was the 2004 election, not the 2000 election. As the [Program on International Policy Attitudes reported](http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_9_29_04.html), > [@](#): > > As the nation prepares to watch the presidential candidates debate foreign policy issues, a new PIPA-Knowledge Networks poll finds that Americans who plan to vote for President Bush have many incorrect assumptions about his foreign policy positions. Kerry supporters, on the other hand, are largely accurate in their assessments. The uncommitted also tend to misperceive Bush’s positions, though to a smaller extent than Bush supporters, and to perceive Kerry’s positions correctly. […] > > Majorities of Bush supporters incorrectly assumed that Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (84%), and the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the International Criminal Court (66%), the treaty banning land mines (72%), and the Kyoto Treaty on global warming (51%). ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/32 "2009-09-13T05:35:53Z")
Pretty much equally so for both parties, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/33 "2009-09-13T05:57:26Z")
Both parties use misinformation sometimes, both use willful ignorance sometimes, both couch their arguments in fallacy sometimes. We’re seeing a lot of it from some folks on the right currently like Beck and Limbaugh because they’re trying to ‘win’ debates by any means necessary, and not to honestly analyze the issues. But we should also keep in mind that the Republican party has, for more than a decade now, had an explicit, methodical and moreover highly _effective_ strategy of memetic combat that the Democrats are both too disorganized and not clued in enough to use. Gingrich flashed to this a long time ago and it is currently one of the center points in the Republicans’ strategy of talking points and a unified front that allows them to, pretty routinely, define the limits and set the terms of a discussion. [Lanuage: a Key Mechanism of Control.](http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1276) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/34 "2009-09-13T06:02:03Z")
Well, sure, they got professional whores, all we got are talented sluts. ---
**Author:** ![TheFatKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TheFatKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFatKid)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/35 "2009-09-14T03:56:50Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Nah, they’re too busy beating the “ACORN is teh suxxor” and “Obama is a Socialist!!” drums. Btw, the most hardcore drum-beaters on those counts are not Republicans, but Libertarians and various other fringier groups. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/36 "2009-09-14T04:40:18Z")
> [@TheFatKid](#): > > Btw, the most hardcore drum-beaters on those counts are not Republicans, but Libertarians and various other fringier groups. “That wasn’t us! You can’t prove anything! It was other kids, I swear!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/37 "2009-09-14T04:57:36Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > Pretty much equally so for both parties, IMO. IMO, not even close to equally so. False equivocation provides quite the smokescreen for some to commit truly unprecedented and bizarre actions. Of course, you can shut me up by showing me the well-attended rallies urging succession from the left… ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/38 "2009-09-14T16:07:20Z")
The Republicans have been better at distilling their message into sound bites, bumper stickers, etc. When you put your message into text that is sufficient for a Facebook update, you leave a lot out and you leave a lot of room for interpretation. That lets you do the little sidestep dance when necessary. The Democrats do a better job of detailed proposals that then put people to sleep (Mr. Gore - how ARE you today?). This leaves them open to attack when people track down the details. By dodging details, Republican messages are easier to disseminate. OF course, that also means they are easier to play with in interpretation. In other words, “That bumper sticker didn’t mean what you thought it meant.” ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/39 "2009-09-15T01:44:02Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > The Republicans have been better at distilling their message into sound bites, bumper stickers, etc. When you put your message into text that is sufficient for a Facebook update, you leave a lot out and you leave a lot of room for interpretation. That lets you do the little sidestep dance when necessary. This is the problem. The Republicans are good at condensing messages because there is no expanded form of the message! The sound bite is all there is! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070/40 "2009-09-15T04:11:12Z")
From [_The Nation:_](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090928/younge) > [@](#): > > There are three important points to acknowledge about people like Gladney. First, they are not new. The cold war in general and McCarthyism in particular was built on lies, misinformation, obsession and guilt by the most tenuous of associations. After Eisenhower defeated Taft at the 1952 GOP convention, a woman emerged insisting, “This means eight more years of socialism.” In the late 1940s, a chairman of a federal loyalty review board conceded, “Of course, the fact that a person believes in racial equality doesn’t prove that he’s a communist. But it certainly makes you look twice, doesn’t it? You can’t get away from the fact that racial equality is part of the communist line.” Today the Internet distributes these slurs faster, and cable TV gives them more outlets. But there has always been a sizable section of society that seeks to fashion a bespoke reality out of whole cloth. These are the people who believe that civil rights was really about miscegenation, abortion rights is about promiscuity and gay rights is about pedophilia. There are more of them than we’d like to think. And they are not going away. > > Second, you can’t argue with them. A good two and a half weeks after failed rescue efforts during Hurricane Katrina left bodies floating in the streets and people abandoned on roofs, 35 percent of the country believed that George W. Bush had done a good or excellent job responding to the crisis. That is roughly the proportion of the country with whom there is no real means of engagement. These are the birthers, Swiftboaters, climate change skeptics, Obamaphobes and Palin-tologists–the base. They live in a politically parallel world where everyone they know believes the same as they do. They don’t like established facts, so they come armed with their own. The left has such people too, but they are marginal. With no news channels to promote them or Congressmen prepared to advocate for them, their views rarely reach the mainstream. > > Third, we can beat them. These people gain the kind of purchase that shifts them from an irritant to an obstacle only when there is a vacuum of leadership and the absence of good alternatives. It is only under these conditions that they are able to cast unreasonable doubt in the reasonable minds of those who seek clarification, encouragement or a stake in any substantive change. This is precisely what has happened with the healthcare debate over the past few months. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/t-f-misinformation-ignorance-and-fallacy-is-the-bread-and-butter-of-the-republican-party/509070.md?page=3)