# Table manners, How do YOU do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513 "2011-07-01T15:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/81 "2011-07-05T19:06:09Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I think most people were raised with most of these rules, but they realized that the rules are in fact - stupid. YM as always MV. I can only speak from my personal experience, and that is of people who simply never learned table manners and get angry at people who did. > [@Laggard](#): > > My dominanat had is my right hand so I keep the knife there. I can only imagine using a fork in my left hand though, just like I can’t imagine writing with my right hand. Well now I’m just confused as all hell. Because in your previous post you specified that you use your fork in your left and have no need to switch, which to me says knife in right for cutting, fork stays in left for eating. > [@Anaamika](#): > > So grabbing with both hands is a faux pas? He’s never going to take you home to meet the folks with fellatio techniques like that, apparently. Tsk, tsk. > [@](#): > > Oh, I know…but I still eat it with a fork. Same here, mostly. Unless I’m eating it raw, in which case I just NOM NOM NOM. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/82 "2011-07-05T19:08:19Z")
Further thoughts: Table manners is one of those fun areas where people get to be judgmental on both ends of the spectrum. People who believe in having lots of nitpicky rules get to think that those who don’t are slobs, and people who believe that anything goes so long as you’re not blatantly gross or rude get to think that the etiquette crowd are snobs. Ultimately, I think it’s just one of those things that makes a nice shibboleth one way or the other for the people you should be hanging around with–at least when it comes to people you’re eating with every day. ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/83 "2011-07-05T19:37:01Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I think this really speaks to the attitude that I always seem to encounter when people speak out against table manners and other forms of etiquette. The problem, IME, seems to be not that people know the rules and decide not to follow them, but that they were \*never taught \*the rules, don’t know what they are, and are then \*embarassed \*by that fact. So instead of just learning, they get all huffy and sour-grapesy and insist that of course these rules are \*stupid \*and anyone who follows them is _stupid_, all to cover up their own insecurities. I can assure that I’m quite civilized and have been taught most of these rules, if not even seen them in practice. I simply find them foolish and antiquated rituals. However, the attitude you display in this post speaks to my experience that people who spend time fretting over such relics of social niceties are elitists who are so insecure and concerned with their social status that they are desperate to use any and all manner of metric to claim themselves as superior to others. Mileage does indeed vary. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/84 "2011-07-05T19:54:18Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > I can assure that I’m quite civilized and have been taught most of these rules, if not even seen them in practice. I simply find them foolish and antiquated rituals. I know you’re not directing this at me, but out of curiosity (to you and any other etiquette-eschewing dopers who care to respond), which table manners do you think are antiquated and foolish? Are you referring specifically to issues like which hand to hold the fork in? Napkin on the lap, what? I really, really don’t get this way of thinking. To my mind, the very act of not eating like a slob is, in and of itself, table manners. In other words, when you’re (general you) attempting not to eat like a slob, you tend toward chewing with your mouth closed, not speaking with a wad of food in your mouth, avoiding wiping your hands on the table cloth, etc. Just because you don’t call them table manners doesn’t mean you don’t use them. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/85 "2011-07-05T20:03:32Z")
I always bring a bottle wine as a gift to my hosts when invited for a nice dinner. I do not expect it to be used with the dinner, though. My hosts may have something already planned. If it is not used, I do not expect it back. It is a gift. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Just reading this thread has mad me too exhausted to respond. Just knowing that some people give ordinary human interactions this level of scrutiny makes me want to forswear the human race entirely. Most of these rules are there for a reason. “Don’t chew with your mouth open.” No one wants to see your half eaten food. “Don’t rest your elbows or arms on the table.” There is limited space around the table, when you take up real estate with your limbs, you’re taking it from your neighbors. “Don’t take too much/don’t take seconds until every one has had a first serving.” Do I really need to explain why taking more than your fair share from a communal resource is a bad idea? “Wait for the host/hostess before you start eating.” Showing respect for someone is a simple, small form of thanks in return for providing you with a meal. “Pass to the left.” Simple traffic flow. “Take small bites.” That way you chew your mouthful more quickly, and can more quickly entertain your dinner companions with your witty insides of the state of human affairs _without_ showing them the state of your half-masticated meal. Like most rules of society, table manners are as they are as are to ensure a smooth and pleasant experience for everyone involved. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/86 "2011-07-05T20:32:36Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > I always bring a bottle wine as a gift to my hosts when invited for a nice dinner. I do not expect it to be used with the dinner, though. My hosts may have something already planned. If it is not used, I do not expect it back. It is a gift. This is an important thing that many people do not understand. > [@](#): > > Most of these rules are there for a reason. […] Like most rules of society, table manners are as they are as are to ensure a smooth and pleasant experience for everyone involved. Exactly. There are a whole big slew of more subjective rules that I tend to only bother with when I’m at, e.g., a business dinner, but I cut my personal list down to the ones that I think are important and that I’d like to see from others, not because they’re the magical password to some secret club of the cool kids, but because they demonstrate that you have consideration for others and want to enjoy your meal instead of inhaling it like some sort of protein sludge. Oh, a side note on elbows on the table: they’re a problem even when there is plenty of room on the table, because they encourage you to bring your face down to your utensil instead of lifting your utensil up to your face. ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/87 "2011-07-05T23:17:17Z")
Mexican here. Your first plate will be made for you, so you’ll be asked if you don’t want something. The same way for your drink: milk, soda, beer, ice, no ice, etc. Eat as soon as you get to the table No talking or chewing with your mouth full. Tortillas at almost every meal. Yes, this includes soups and some relatives have used them on spaghetti. If you can’t use them, please ask for utensils. However, forks will be provided for salads. Fork and knife in either hand, just make sure you get the food in your mouth and not on the table. Personally, I switch hands several times in a meal. Same goes for drinks, but they’ll initially be at your right. After eating the first serving, if you’re a guest, take as much you want. We have plenty of food in the house. Since I mentioned it, please don’t bring any food or drink as a gift. It can be seen as either our food isn’t a sufficient amount or good enough for you. Holidays are exceptions. If you can’t reach a dish, ask for it to be passed. Your plate was brought to the table, it will be taken back the same way. Leave it there. If a guest, prepare to take food home. Please remember to return the plate/bowl/etc. If you’re invited to a restaurant, order what you want. **DON"T** ask to see the check or offer to help pay. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/88 "2011-07-05T23:46:50Z")
Georgia mountains. “No wrasslin’ at the table!” is our strict rule. Well, our only strict rule. It’s … kinda strict … :::nods, proud of his decorum::: ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/89 "2011-07-06T04:30:24Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Now I’m really curious where you grew up and hold old you are. I’m not even 30 yet, and it was absolutely understood when I was growing up that leaving your hat on was very rude. Does it make sense? No. But \*many \*societal rules are completely arbitrary, or at least become so over time. I had heard of taking your hat off for the national anthem from going to baseball games, and the actually sensible notion of not wearing a hat large enough to block someone else’s view in an audience, but that’s it. I grew up on Long Island (NY). In 1992 during my senior year of high school (I’m now 37) we had one teacher who was generally a dick, and one of his quirks was not letting anyone wearing hats in his class. This concept blew my mind. I guess if you are brought up with the notion you are used to it, but never having encountered it before, it make me feel like Harry Mudd’s androids. It wasn’t until sometime after college I encountered the dislike of all courts, and some churches (really just the famous one in NYC) for hats. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/90 "2011-07-06T12:15:21Z")
Here’s the thing about wearing a hat indoors. When you wear a hat inside someone’s house, the message you’re sending is that your host’s house does not provide sufficient protection from the elements. You may not intend to send this message, but that is what you are telling your host. Women get a pass on hats in church as a matter of practicality. Most women’s hats used to be pinned on and take some time to remove. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/91 "2011-07-06T13:40:23Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > True story: > I was once eating a meal with an otherwise well mannered couple. When the waiter placed waters at each place, they were generally placed just a slight amount to the right of center of the dinner plate. However, the man of the couple, his water was actually placed a little to the left of center, possibly no more than 1/2 inch, but enough that the situation was obvious to all. > > I’m sure you know what happened next, he reached with his right hand, across center of the dinner plate to grasp his water glass - I was mortified. I could tell every single table that happened to be looking in our direction was now quickly passing judgement on our entire table. That was one of my favorite restaurants and now I can’t even be seen there. Oh well. I presume the correct reaction would have been for the man to get up and slug the waiter? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/92 "2011-07-06T14:18:26Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > I presume the correct reaction would have been for the man to get up and slug the waiter? Rube! Slug the waiter _with the left hand_! ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/93 "2011-07-06T14:35:59Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > When you wear a hat inside someone’s house, the message you’re sending is that your host’s house does not provide sufficient protection from the elements. You may not intend to send this message, but that is what you are telling your host. No. It doesn’t send that message. I understand that it used to be the custom. But it really makes no sense at all outside of its historical context. And I understand that some people claim that particular reasoning, but it sounds like a lame fan wank to be honest, or something a mother makes up so her children won’t argue. I’d be seriously surprised if many people follow(ed) it for any reason other than that it was a custom. It’s like saying you should be offended at a white shirt because it sends the message that the host didn’t properly light their home. The only message I am sending is, I like to wear this hat. What idiots decide to take it into their head to read into it is their problem. It makes no more sense than interpreting me taking my hat off as a sign that I want to have sexual intercourse. Especially now when people wear such a variety of head wear, for such a variety of reasons. I defy anyone to seriously claim that they think more than 10% of guys wearing baseball caps are doing so to keep from being cold. I find it especially ridiculous given these sorts of things are more steadfast in the south, where it is quite warm and people are more likely to wear hats as sun protection. I suppose you’ll claim now that in that case the host will be horrified that I am implying I’m afraid that I’ll get a horrible sunburn due to her lack of roof! At best, I can see a logic in wearing a bit more upscale hat to a more upscale party, or a hat appropriate to the theme at a theme or costume party. But the mere presence of a hat as offensive is beyond ridiculous and absurd, and anyone who still read into it some sort of secret message needs to get their head examined. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/94 "2011-07-06T14:47:19Z")
I’d actually say that leaving your hat on is like leaving your coat on - what, you don’t plan to stay? But really, it’s just something polite people don’t do. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/95 "2011-07-06T14:56:24Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > But really, it’s just something polite people don’t do. Now we’re just in a loop. X is polite because polite people do X. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/96 "2011-07-06T15:11:42Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Rube! Slug the waiter _with the left hand_! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/97 "2011-07-06T15:21:45Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > I know you’re not directing this at me, but out of curiosity (to you and any other etiquette-eschewing dopers who care to respond), which table manners do you think are antiquated and foolish? Are you referring specifically to issues like which hand to hold the fork in? Napkin on the lap, what? I’m not referring to any specific rule (or perhaps I’m referring to all of them), but I’m more concerned with the prescriptive nature of them. The idea that this manner of eating is the fundamentally proper way and failure to adhere to those rules would reveal one to be uncivilized. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > I really, really don’t get this way of thinking. To my mind, the very act of not eating like a slob is, in and of itself, table manners. In other words, when you’re (general you) attempting not to eat like a slob, you tend toward chewing with your mouth closed, not speaking with a wad of food in your mouth, avoiding wiping your hands on the table cloth, etc. Just because you don’t call them table manners doesn’t mean you don’t use them. Like much of the etiquette listed in this thread, you’ve defined not eating like a slob in very upper crust, Euro-centric terms. Things are different in other parts of the world, and can vary tremendously from person to person. For example, I have a problem with visible food stains on napkins/crumbled up napkins. But I don’t look down on others because they don’t fastidiously fold their napkins to avoid revealing what they wiped from the corner of their mouth. I don’t know if this is running into hijack territory because it was supposed to be an IMHO about how our individual families eat. But suffice it to say, it confounded me, as I suppose it did others, not that people had certain formal meal customs, but that they seem to expect others to adhere to their customs when in their company and failure to do so could result in a “polite” rebuke, evil eye, etc. When I’m eating with someone, I’m there to enjoy their company, not keep track of their social graces. To bring it back to the OP: My family is Irish Catholic from Long Island. All of the dinners we have are predominantly family and family of family. There’s usually around 20 people there, but it can range from 12-35, not counting weddings. The number of people means it pretty much has to be buffet style. At some point everyone figures out that the food is ready. You get a plate, silverware and serve yourself what you want. You find a seat at one of the tables, you eat, you talk, you joke, if you want more you get up and get more. At some point my cousin will make a fart joke. At another point some one will drop something that results in a never ending round of > [@](#): > > Aunt 1 “What happened?” > Cousin “Little cousin dropped her fork” > Grandma “Who dropped a fork?” > Aunt 2 “Little cousin” > Uncle 1 “What about little cousin?” > Cousin in Law “Little cousin dropped her fork.” > Mom of Little Cousin “What did she do with a fork?” > Cousin 2 “She dropped it.” > Mom of Little Cousin “Oh, OK.” > > \<45 seconds pass\> > > Grandpa “What happend?” > and repeat When you’re done, you get up and throw your plate and silverware in the garbage (unless it was one of those small 12 person affairs where every one gets a real plate and silverware ;)). ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/98 "2011-07-06T15:26:50Z")
> [@lilbug](#): > > This idea that leaving food on your plate is an insult…get over yourselves. I’m a adult, if I can’t finish what’s on my plate, I shouldn’t be expected to as if I were a child. For us, as a family of 7 on a fixed income, taking more than you could eat meant others went without. As an adult, it was expected that you should know what you can/can’t eat at one sitting. The fact that you can’t figure that out means you are a little more childish than you think. ymmv. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/99 "2011-07-06T15:32:11Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Fork goes in left hand, knife goes in right. > > Don’t pour your own wine… > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I find this a bit ridiculous in this day and age. You’d rather inconvenience your left-handed (or otherwise) guests than follow some outdated rule such as this? Otherwise, I think your list pretty much covers it. Fork and knife in opposing hands is good manners and not outdated. Doesn’t have to be right hand knife, left hand fork. If one is left-handed naturally the opposite would apply. Rather what it is referring to is to cut and, using the knife, help the food onto the fork and then straight to the mouth. In other words, don’t cut and then put down the knife, transfer fork to other hand, stab food and then to mouth. As far as pouring my own wine… unless the meal is being served and wine is being poured by a designated servant, butler, sommelier, etc. Absolutely will I pour my own! After asking to pour for everyone else first though. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/100 "2011-07-06T15:34:26Z")
I, too, have a problem with the custom of having to remove one’s hat at the table. Not that I even wear hats. But it seems silly to demand someone remove part of their outfit. I mean, a hat these days is like a bracelet or a tie…decoration, to enhance the outfit and the look. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513.md?page=6)