# Table manners, How do YOU do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513 "2011-07-01T15:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/101 "2011-07-06T15:55:51Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I, too, have a problem with the custom of having to remove one’s hat at the table. Not that I even wear hats. But it seems silly to demand someone remove part of their outfit. I mean, a hat these days is like a bracelet or a tie…decoration, to enhance the outfit and the look. Isn’t the no hat rule meant for the male population? In the Titanic (movie), the scene where Jack is invited to dine in first class for saving Rose… I thought the ladies were wearing their fancy chapeaus throughout the dinner service. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/102 "2011-07-06T16:00:01Z")
> [@lukeinva](#): > > Isn’t the no hat rule meant for the male population? In the Titanic (movie), the scene where Jack is invited to dine in first class for saving Rose… I thought the ladies were wearing their fancy chapeaus throughout the dinner service. I think modern etiquette should rather call for equal treatment of genders as a higher principle, no? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/103 "2011-07-06T16:19:04Z")
> [@lukeinva](#): > > Isn’t the no hat rule meant for the male population? In the Titanic (movie), the scene where Jack is invited to dine in first class for saving Rose… I thought the ladies were wearing their fancy chapeaus throughout the dinner service. I was _thinking_ about the men. Because really, what other reason do men wear hats these days, except as a decoration (i.e., they think it looks good on them). Why, I just saw a young man sitting outside in a fedora-type hat, and he looked very nice. I wouldn’t expect him to take off his hat and reveal flat hat-hair if he was having dinner with me. I don’t know the meaning behind this rule at all and either way think it’s dated. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/104 "2011-07-06T16:53:02Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > \ > Like much of the etiquette listed in this thread, you’ve defined not eating like a slob in very upper crust, Euro-centric terms. Things are different in other parts of the world, and can vary tremendously from person to person. For example, I have a problem with visible food stains on napkins/crumbled up napkins. But I don’t look down on others because they don’t fastidiously fold their napkins to avoid revealing what they wiped from the corner of their mouth. > > I don’t know if this is running into hijack territory because it was supposed to be an IMHO about how our individual families eat. But suffice it to say, it confounded me, as I suppose it did others, not that people had certain formal meal customs, but that they seem to expect others to adhere to their customs when in their company and failure to do so could result in a “polite” rebuke, evil eye, etc. When I’m eating with someone, I’m there to enjoy their company, not keep track of their social graces. I think you’re misunderstanding me, or at least attributing a lot more malice toward my comments than I intended. Just because I have certain rules that I follow at my house doesn’t mean I’m automatically calling your way of doing things stupid, uncouth or lowbrow. For example, if I’m serving a meal and someone starts eating before I sit down, my only reaction would be, “Huh. Guess he was hungry.” I’m hardly going to blacklist them from all future events or order them from the table. I enjoy my friends for their personalities, even though of them do kind of gross me out (I have one particular friend who regularly talks with his mouth so full that food sometimes falls out; I try to avoid meals with him, but ignore it if I can’t). The whole point of my comment was that I don’t get how standard etiquette is “upper crust” or “Eurocentric.” The way I’ve seen most etiquette used just seems practical. You put your napkin in your lap so if you spill you don’t ruin your clothes. If you don’t happen to do so, big whoop. My husband rarely puts a napkin in his lap. He doesn’t happen to be nearly as clutzy as I am. And trust me, I’m pretty familiar with different etiquette in different countries. My husband is from India. If you visit us for dinner, we might be eating Indian food using our hands with our elbows on the table with nary a utensil in sight. Then the next day, you might come to find us digging into more standard American fare using a fork and knife with our elbows off the table. I’ve also lived in Chile where the rules are a different, more nuanced blend of European and something else. I’d be the last one to give someone else a look for not cutting their meat with the “right” utensil, though I reserve the right to be annoyed (though not demonstrate it) when an adult is cutting food so vigorously they scrape up my plates. (Then again, I’d be mortified if I cooked something so chewy they felt the need to do that.) But whether you call it etiquette or rules or common sense or choose not to label it at all, most everyday etiquette is simple, straightforward and practical. I don’t care if someone doesn’t swap hands when they cut their food (I don’t), but I do think that not having food falling out of your mouth, avoiding accidentally hitting your companions and thanking your host or hostess is a no-brainer. And I still don’t see how that’s upper crust or Eurocentric - these “rules” are universal. Hell, even when I was living in a tent we used these rules, and there were people of every description there. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/105 "2011-07-08T15:52:28Z")
> [@lukeinva](#): > > Fork and knife in opposing hands is good manners and not outdated. Doesn’t have to be right hand knife, left hand fork. If one is left-handed naturally the opposite would apply. Rather what it is referring to is to cut and, using the knife, help the food onto the fork and then straight to the mouth. In other words, don’t cut and then put down the knife, transfer fork to other hand, stab food and then to mouth. What you’re describing is the “proper” European style. What you advise against is the “proper” American style. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/106 "2011-07-27T15:53:59Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > Napkins go on your lap, not tucked into your collar like a baby’s bib. > [@Dragwyr](#): > > Napkins go in the lap. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If there’s a napkin at your place, it goes on your lap as soon as you sit down > [@chizzuk](#): > > -Napkin belongs in the lap. > [@nashiitashii](#): > > Napkin goes in lap, and one dabs at one’s face rather than wipes. You shouldn’t be making enough of a mess to need to wipe. 😉 > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Please keep your napkin in your lap. I don’t want to see it. > [@Maiira](#): > > -Napkins on laps, preferably, though we’re not strict about this. > [@overlyverbose](#): > > You put your napkin in your lap so if you spill you don’t ruin your clothes. It’s interesting to me that this one rule still seems to be nearly universal and practically unquestioned. Speaking personally, I’m a fat man. I have no lap to speak of. Balancing a napkin on my knee usually guarantees that it’s going to spend most of its time on the floor. And it does nothing to help protect my clothes from spills, which all happen on my shirt, not on my trousers. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/107 "2011-07-27T15:58:41Z")
Well, yes, rules don’t generally ever apply to people who are physically incapable of conforming to them. Someone who has no legs, either because of amputation or congenitally, also wouldn’t be expected to put their napkin in their nonexistent lap. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/108 "2011-07-28T15:02:40Z")
I’ve never been made to feel that I get a pass on the napkin rule, particularly since “wearing a napkin like a bib” is a common quip, even here on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513/109 "2011-07-28T15:42:21Z")
Well, yes, I’m sure that people here \*also \*make jokes about those who wear sunglasses indoors or at night but would have no objection if the person doing so is blind. I think it’s probably safe to assume that most rules are intended for the general population, and if you are someone in an outlying percentage who is incapable of following them, no one is going to expect you to bend the laws of physics in order to accommodate us. Discussions would get pretty tedious if you constantly had to caveat them to make it explicitly clear that what you’re saying only applies to people who are physically capable of doing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/table-manners-how-do-you-do-it/587513.md?page=5)