So what is it about American workers in particular that makes us so opposed to “menial” work like board game production? Is this something that every country has to a similar degree, or are our workers especially fussy?
I watch a few YouTube channels that focus on Japanese mass production, both artisanal and commercial (like https://m.youtube.com/@processx). I’d hate to do any of those jobs myself, but some of those are treasured industries (for everything for calligraphy ink to rice cookers). Their workers seem to take such pride in it, and many steadfastly refuse automation for the sake of tradition.
Of course Japan isn’t quite the economic powerhouse it used to be, and they have a completely different set of social problems than we do.
Would China be the way it is today if it were richer? Is it just their level of economic development and the desperation of their workers that makes them willing to work in board game factories?
This thread makes it sound like board game manufacturing is a sweatshop job that nobody would want if they had better options. Is it really that bad?
This is a really fascinating discussion, but I believe it might be better to have it in a separate thread. Someone else revived an older thread on bringing back manufacturing jobs in GD, maybe that is appropriate? Or start a new thread?
I also used to work with a bunch of h1b holders, and some of them were poached by other companies willing to take on the visa process in return for getting people who had above-average training or skills. It was quite frustrating.
But the ones who stayed did eventually get their green cards.
I understand there’s a broader question, but in a discussion of the effect of tariffs on tabletop games, it still seems on topic?
I think it’s mostly factory work. That can be a sweatshop or a sweet union job, depending on wages and conditions. Or it can be artisanal: I have a friend who has printed and assembled a couple of complex board games he wanted that weren’t in print. But that’s not viable economically. If he’d paid himself minimum wage, one game would have cost hundreds of dollars, plus the cost of his printer, materials, etc.
Realistically, if someone prints board games in the US, it’s going to be a very small shop, and probably neither a sweat shop nor a source of great jobs, just a source of okay low wage jobs with a lot of turnover, both because those employed will find better work and because the employer is going to have a lot of ebb and flow in business, and will be routinely hiring and laying off workers.
I can understand that, the current discussion is indeed on topic (and I don’t want to thread police). It is just that I’m interested in discussing the broader topic (not limited to only tabletop games, as I do not know much about that) and don’t feel comfortable doing that here (also given the mod note).
Nothing, It is just that in the USA you can not legally pay $1 or $3.70 an hour (China), and people cant live on that here. $17/hour is the average here.
Not to mention we just don’t have the infrastructure for those kinds of production jobs. Not at scale, anyway. The time and investment to build it looks unattractive since the next administration (or this one) could drop the tariffs before the factory is even finished.
I don’t think I ever met an H-1B employee who wasn’t angling for their Green Card. If they ever got wind that we didn’t intend to sponsor them for their permanent residency, they would have applied with another company who would.
In a nutshell, H-1B visas are for foreign workers in occupations requiring a high degree of education and or training. The equivalent of a bachelor’s degree at minimum. You’re right, I don’t think you’ll see a lot of people hoping for that sweet, sweet employer sponsored visa flocking to board games as few of those jobs would meet the requirements. And even if they did, they’d be unlikely to get permanent residency.
I do think there are plenty of Americans who would be happy with a factory job if it provided them with a decent standard of living.
Indeed- back in trump vs Clinton, trump promised workers in the rust belt he’d get them their factory jobs back. He lied, and that was one of the things that cost him vs Biden.
But not at $3.70 a hour, they would want more like $17-25.
Underdog Games (which makes those “Trekking the [something]” games that were hot a couple of years ago) is laying off most of its staff, apparently, and hunkering down to get through the tariffs. They still have some card games going out.
(sorry if you can’t read Bluesky posts, this is a series of posts from their [former] design studio manager)
Also, a post from the board game director of Hachette Games:
This is a Catch 22. This idiotic tariff regime will drive up the costs of everything and drive up unemployment. The amount of money you’ll need to make to have a “decent standard of living” will be even higher than it is now. Certainly, there will be people desperate enough to work these crappy jobs, but they aren’t going to be careers and they aren’t going to have a decent quality of life. And if our economy ever recovers to have low unemployment again…these jobs will just leave again.
Luke from DM Lair has a video talking about his cancelled board game Kickstarter for Dungeon Drifters. Although he had technically hit his goal, his spreadsheet showed a significant loss on the project and he pulled the plug and ate the ~$50k in sunk coasts (art, prototypes, employee time, etc) rather than complete it. He talks about how funding goals are bullshit*, realistic dollars to get a product made and profitable, effects of tariffs, minimum production orders and other stuff. I found it interesting.
*Basically, everyone sets a low funding goal so it can be quickly hit and ride on the wave of enthusiasm from “Fully Funded in just five minutes!” and “3500% goal attained!”. If you actually ran the numbers and set a goal based on what you need to turn a profit, early backers would see a $250,000 goal and say “This will never happen” and walk away instead of taking a chance on it.
Final Frontier games, which has some kickstarters, is laying off a bunch of people and it seems like they’re headed toward bankruptcy (the title says they have filed, not sure if that’s true).
They kind of blame CMON - not sure if that’s fair - but CMON seems to be still sliding toward the drain. Gah. I like CMON.
The Final Frontier Games issue was not Tariff related though. They were basically using the money from Kickstarter N+1 to pay for N and eventually their luck ran out. Unfortunately for me I backed their game The Sixth Realm and am out $135.
This video from BGG is a good take on the current situation. It begins with a bit about the game Bohnanza to illustrate a point about trade which you can skip if you are only interested in the Tariff/trade war stuff.
And here’s a good post on Reddit from the co-owner of Bitewing Games. In turn, it includes a clip from CNN where they actually interview a board game company CEO.
Yeah, reports of their demise were exaggerated. They’ve just stopped production on new games and laid off staff (I mean, I say “just”, but better than closure).
Game companies are already paying higher import fees so at least some of these tariffs have already kicked in. Why do you say they come into effect next week?
