# Tacky Patriotism **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 10, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775 "2003-09-10T15:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/21 "2003-09-11T00:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeep’s Phoenix \* > **I’ve never bought any car flags–they’re way too fragile to travel at highway speeds…** My husband bought a couple of Ravens Superbowl Champion car flags a few years ago and I had mine on for exactly one day. The constant flap-flap-flapping drove me nuts. When I see people with several car flags (American flags and various sports team flags), I don’t know how they stand the noise. I’ve seen people in pick-up trucks with huge flags mounted in the truck bed and wondered if it was even legal. It looks dangerous, and it seems like a distraction. They’re usually at a bit of an angle, and trailing out of the back of the truck bed. It seems like that would violate the flag code as well. ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/22 "2003-09-11T00:55:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MsRobyn \* > \*\* On the PA Turnpike, near the Johnstown exit, there is a sign advertising tours of the Flight 93 crash site. What’re you going to see? An empty field. There’s nothing there anymore, and even when there was, you couldn’t get close to the crash site. > > Robin \*\* Actually I believe there is a memorial of sorts, or at the veyr least a plaque listing the names of the flight crew and passengers and telling what happened. People have also left flowers, messages etc. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/23 "2003-09-11T03:52:59Z")
Super-tacky. I live near NYC, and I see a lot of WTC stuff… people still sell postcards of it, and they still sell ballcaps and sweatshirts and things. It was one thing shortly after the event. Not that it was un-tacky, just that you could understand the emotion. Two years after the fact, it’s morbid and tacky profiteering. I sure hope tourists aren’t coming to New York and buying that junk. ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/24 "2003-09-11T06:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DesertDog \* > \*\*The offering would seem to violate [Section 8, paragraph g of the Flag Code.](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/8.html) And flying a shredded or faded flag is definitely in violation of paragraph k. > > Some patriots.\*\* Thank you for pointing this out, **DesertDog**. I hadn’t even thought about that. My grandfather, a World War Two veteran, would be shocked and angered by this were he still with us. It may have been a pointless gesture, but I decided to email the company selling that flag. I’ll post their reply if they _do_ reply. This is what I wrote in my email: > [@](#): > > While I generally applaud most gestures of patriotism, my first thought upon seeing your September 11 flag was that it was unbelievably tacky. However, I was talking to some friends online and one of them pointed out to me that it is also in violation of Section 8, Paragraph g, of the flag code. I don’t see how this honors those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001. > > MidnightRadio ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/25 "2003-09-11T11:57:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*Just curious, **bayonet1976** , what country do you come from, and when did you come to the US? \*\* I was born and raised in Cuba, and finally made it to this country in 1976, and the bicentennial madness of that year probably colored my perception of American patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/26 "2003-09-11T22:06:14Z")
bayonet1976, good to have people like you here. Thanks for your sentiments; I agree with all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/27 "2003-09-11T22:37:01Z")
I can’t say if its tacky or not but it is a kick in the stomach to me. It is on par with war profiteering in my book. There is a horror in 9/11 that does NOT deserve to be commercialized and mass produced. And we all know how empty gestures of patriotism ALWAYS win wars and made the bad guys go away crying… _shakes head sadly_ ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/28 "2003-09-11T22:42:04Z")
That site looks like a kitchen table operation. One page poorly done and then they want your credit card number on a non-secure connection. Yeah, sure I’m going to give you my credit card number. It looks like a scam more than anything else. if you do get a flag it’s probably made in China by political prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/29 "2003-09-12T01:24:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \* > **I’ve seen people in pick-up trucks with huge flags mounted in the truck bed and wondered if it was even legal. It looks dangerous, and it seems like a distraction. They’re usually at a bit of an angle, and trailing out of the back of the truck bed.** Maybe three months ago, in stop-and-go freeway traffic, I saw a truck towing a horse trailer, with a giant flag hanging off the back of the trailer. When I say “giant,” I mean it was attached at the top edge of the trailer, and the bottom corner was a foot off the ground. And when I say “hanging off the back,” I mean there wasn’t a flagpole; they’d attached one corner to the top edge and the other corner maybe halfway down the rear door somewhere, so the whole thing was a limp, soggy mass against the back of the trailer. The bottom edge was tattered and frayed, and the whole lower half was stained and discolored with muddy road spray. It was absolutely one of the most disgraceful things I’d ever seen, and is, to me, the quintessential example of the person who is unclear on the concept of patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/30 "2003-09-12T03:44:09Z")
I don’t have a problem with stores that sell patriotic stuff, or with (most) of the people who manufacture them. The “flag” linked to in the OP would be one of the exceptions: it’s ghoulish in the way that the knives and cigarette lighters depicting the towers aflame were. Apart from that, though, the aggregate may seem a bit overwhelming, but taken individually, most of the products are tasteful. My problem is with some of the **consumers**. Here’s a hint, folks: just because your local Sav-On or whatever has twenty different stars-and-stripes tchotchkes on display, that doesn’t mean you have to **buy** each and every one of them! It’s not gonna make Binny go away; it’s not gonna bring back any of the 9/11 victims, and it’s not gonna make our government or military more powerful. Just get **one** , preferably something simple and to the point. Like **one** t-shirt or bumper sticker with a picture of the flag and the slogan “These Colors Don’t Run”. But if your vehicle is plastered with red, white and blue, and pro-American-anti-everyone-else propaganda, and a (or more than one) tattered flag, plus if you have a “#3” sticker in there somewhere, that negates the power of the message. **MidnightRadio** , I’m glad you informed them of that! You may not have been the only one, either! Wonder what’ll happen to their “enterprise”? ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/31 "2003-09-12T07:51:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*That site looks like a kitchen table operation. One page poorly done and then they want your credit card number on a non-secure connection. Yeah, sure I’m going to give you my credit card number. It looks like a scam more than anything else. if you do get a flag it’s probably made in China by political prisoners. \*\* I actually found the site through a piece of email spam, so yeah… > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Rilchiam_ > **…plus if you have a “#3” sticker in there somewhere, that negates the power of the message.** #3 sticker? What’s that? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > **MidnightRadio, I’m glad you informed them of that! You may not have been the only one, either! Wonder what’ll happen to their “enterprise”?** Honestly, I doubt anything will happen. I can’t really see them reading my email and saying, “By golly, he’s right! We’d better take this site down right away and refund money to those who’ve placed orders that haven’t shipped yet!” As of 3:00 in the morning, Central Time, they still haven’t written back to me. Of course, I didn’t specifically mention in my email that I wanted them to reply – which I realize now was a mistake – so they may not feel the need to. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/32 "2003-09-12T10:08:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MidnightRadio \* > \*\* > #3 sticker? What’s that? \*\* Honoring Dale Earnhardt, whose racing number was 3. Again, not something I have a problem with in and of itself, but last year, someone pitted an anonymous driver whose vehicle had bumper stickers commemorating 9/11 and Earnhardt, placed side by side, as if the two losses were analogous. \*\* > [@](#): > > Honestly, I doubt anything will happen. I can’t really see them reading my email and saying, “By golly, he’s right! We’d better take this site down right away and refund money to those who’ve placed orders that haven’t shipped yet!” \*\* Well, I didn’t mean I thought anything would happen because of your, or any random consumer’s, e-mail. But perhaps the site will come to the attention, if it hasn’t already, of someone who has the power to shut down their enterprise. \*\* > [@](#): > > As of 3:00 in the morning, Central Time, they still haven’t written back to me. Of course, I didn’t specifically mention in my email that I wanted them to reply – which I realize now was a mistake – so they may not feel the need to. \*\* Again, I’d be surprised if they did. They’re probably not in it for the long haul, but knew going in that their product is in violation of the flag code, and just hoped to get as many orders as possible before cease-and-desist. No need to reply to e-mails when the site probably won’t be there on Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/33 "2003-09-15T01:47:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rilchiam \* > **No need to reply to e-mails when the site probably won’t be there on Monday.** It’ll only have to be taken down if it’s based in a state whose flag law it violates. The Flag Code imposes [no civil or criminal penalties](http://www.outlawslegal.com/organic/flag.htm) for those who flout its guidelines. Although the Code is indeed a Public Law, its essential function is that of an etiquette primer. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/34 "2003-09-15T18:12:01Z")
There was recently a fight around here over whether or not county prison guards should be allowed to wear American flag pins. Eventually it was ruled that they could. I don’t understand the fight, since one newspaper story reported that their uniforms have had an American flag shoulder patch for almost 20 years now. ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/35 "2003-11-10T12:58:22Z")
I really didn’t think I’d ever have anything else to add to this thread, but I checked my email today was surprised to find a response to the email I wrote _two months ago_ to the company selling the flag. > [@](#): > > MidnightRadio, first I apologize for the late response and thanks for taking the time to write and I respect your concerns, however this is a 911 Flag and not an American Flag. I should also note that we are just a reseller for these Flags and the designer does have a U.S. patent and copyright on this 911 Flag. Furthermore, I consulted with a flag expert last year on the legalities of the Flag and I was told what we are selling is perfectly legal. Finally, please note that it isn’t uncommon to see t-shirts or posters with graphics or other pictures on a flag that looks similar to an American Flag (i.e. on a Ralph Lauren Polo T-shirt I frequently see “RL” in the upper-left hand corner of a red white and blue flag that looks similar to the American Flag). Hope this helps. > > jeff > owner ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/36 "2003-11-10T15:29:48Z")
“Great gift idea” Isn’t that just a really bad idea? You know the greatest disaster your country ever faced? Well, here’s a representation of it defacing your country’s proudest symbol. HAPPY BIRTHDAY! ---
**Author:** ![tisiphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tisiphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tisiphone)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775/37 "2003-11-10T18:19:46Z")
\*Well, I got my window shield so filled With flags I couldn’t see. So, I ran the car upside a curb And right into a tree. By the time they got a doctor down I was already dead. And I’ll never understand why the man Standing in the Pearly Gates said… But yer flag decal won’t get you Into Heaven anymore They’re already overcrowded from Your dirty little war, Now Jesus don’t like killin’ No matter what the reasons for And yer flag decal won’t get you Into Hea-veeeen anymore…\* —John Prine, _Flag Decal_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tacky-patriotism/200775.md?page=1)