# Taco Bell's Ground Beef Is Less Than 35% Actual Meat **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875 "2011-01-25T03:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/161 "2011-01-27T19:06:35Z")
Thanks, **Taomist** and **aruvqan** , but I knew all that already: I have some vegetarian relatives and have had TVP in dishes made by them, and found that (in the right dishes, at least) it works just fine. I’m just wondering about the price, since ground beef (which also works just fine, for my purposes) can be had for 2 or 3 dollars per pound. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/162 "2011-01-27T20:53:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Thanks, **Taomist** and **aruvqan** , but I knew all that already: I have some vegetarian relatives and have had TVP in dishes made by them, and found that (in the right dishes, at least) it works just fine. I’m just wondering about the price, since ground beef (which also works just fine, for my purposes) can be had for 2 or 3 dollars per pound. It’s been a long time since I bought TVP, but c. 2001 it was about a 1/lbs, dry. WAG: .30/lbs, hydrated? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/163 "2011-01-27T21:30:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Thanks, **Taomist** and **aruvqan** , but I knew all that already: I have some vegetarian relatives and have had TVP in dishes made by them, and found that (in the right dishes, at least) it works just fine. I’m just wondering about the price, since ground beef (which also works just fine, for my purposes) can be had for 2 or 3 dollars per pound. Just googling around a little bit it looks like around $8-10/lb. That’s not very helpful though, as that’s dry weight and doesn’t say how many servings that would be. Here’s some [Beefish Bits](http://www.harmonyhousefoods.com/Beefish-Bits-35-lbs_p_1814.html), 3.5 lbs for $27.95. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/164 "2011-01-27T21:37:12Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Just googling around a little bit it looks like around $8-10/lb. That’s not very helpful though, as that’s dry weight and doesn’t say how many servings that would be. > > Here’s some [Beefish Bits](http://www.harmonyhousefoods.com/Beefish-Bits-35-lbs_p_1814.html), 3.5 lbs for $27.95. Oh, that website answers my question in their Q&A section: > [@](#): > > Q: What does the Dry to Fresh ratio mean? > > A: It simply shows the amount of dry product you will need to make the equivalent of the fresh. For example, if there is a 1:8 ratio, it means that 1 pound of dry product would reconstitute to 8 pounds of fresh product. Keep in mind that most dehydrated products are very light, and adding the water back to the product greatly increases the weight. For example, 1 gallon of water weighs over 8 pounds, while 1 gallon of dehydrated spinach weighs 12 ounces. ---
**Author:** ![fjs1fs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@fjs1fs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fjs1fs)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/165 "2011-01-27T21:49:58Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I never get the tacos on the very rare occasions I got to Taco Bell. It’s been sort of a quasi-meat paste for years now (it USED to be real ground beef, and the tacos were at least edible IMHO). These days I get the grilled burrito with steak (never the default ‘ground meat’), and if it’s not real steak it at least tastes like and has the consistency of meat. > > All of the fast food places I remember as a kid have changed how they make stuff and what they use for ingredients. Wendy’s used to have a decent hamburger, McDonald’s used to have decent fries, Domino’s and Pizza Hut/Pizza Inn used to actually be worth getting …even Burger King was edible when I was a kid. And, of course, Taco Bell used to actually have fast food that was edible, if not real Mexican food. Sadly, none of those places are worth feeding to my dog anymore (IMHO). These days about the only ‘fast food’ places I got to are Dion’s and Pei Wei. > > -XT Do most other dopers share this experience? I have found McDonald’s to be just about the most consistent food, with the burgers tasting just like they did when I was a kid, and I am 46 now. Wendy’s and BK seem the same as they did back then too. I actually like the taste of taco bell too (ok, something’s wrong with me!), and the chemicals were the only listed item from above that scared me at all. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/166 "2011-01-27T21:57:20Z")
Most fast food places have changed a little bit over the past 40 years, but I have found that McDonald’s has stayed relatively consistent. I love Taco Bell. However, it’s food quality has plummeted over the years. The ground beef, the cheese, the refried beans have significantly deteriorated in flavor and consistency. But the most significantly noticeable change in quality at Taco Bell has been the tortillas. Over the years, they have become very stretchy and doughy. They were never like that before. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/167 "2011-01-27T22:09:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Thanks, **Taomist** and **aruvqan** , but I knew all that already: I have some vegetarian relatives and have had TVP in dishes made by them, and found that (in the right dishes, at least) it works just fine. I’m just wondering about the price, since ground beef (which also works just fine, for my purposes) can be had for 2 or 3 dollars per pound. Much cheaper. Around here, even in the expensive hippie stores, it’s about $2-3 for a pound, _dry_. I’m not entirely sure how much that reconstitutes to…about 3.5 pounds, I’d guess. I generally use about a cup of TVP in place of a pound of ground beef or diced chicken, and depending on the size and shape of the chunks/granules, there’s about 3 dinnersworth in there. Ah, yes, these guys bear out my impressions, adjusted for my living in an expensive city for specialty food products: > [@](#): > > Beef TVP® runs $1.55/lb DRY – making it about $0.45 per pound rehydrated. That’s an incredible savings – and no thawing or browning time is required – just throw it in the dish! One oz of TVP® is approximately equivalent to 3 oz. of meat. > **[Home](https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/page-not-found)** ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/168 "2011-01-27T22:41:15Z")
I know this is from the first page, but: > [@BigT](#): > > I care because my sister is allergic to soy. I bet she’d going to be pissed that she can’t eat at Taco Bell anymore. > > It really is necessary that you list all your ingredients. > [@Omniscient](#): > > They do. In every store and online. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Riight._ On their website the listing for “Seasoned Beef” reads: “Beef, Water, Seasoning [Isolated Oat Product, Salt, Chili Pepper, Onion Powder, Tomato Powder, Oats (Wheat), Soy Lecithin, Sugar, Spices, Maltodextrin, Soybean Oil (Anti-dusting Agent), Garlic Powder, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Citric Acid, Caramel Color, Cocoa Powder (Processed With Alkali), Silicon Dioxide, Natural Flavors, Yeast, Modified Corn Starch, Natural Smoke Flavor], Salt, Sodium Phosphates. CONTAINS SOYBEAN, WHEAT” > > Notice that the beef-to-filler proportion isn’t listed. Please note that the complaint **Omniscient** was responding to was that “It’s necessary to list all your ingredients because of allergens.” If you’re allergic, it does not matter how much of the allergen is in the food; you avoid it. And since according to your own quote the list of ingredients has a big ole honkin’ “CONTAINS SOYBEANS” at the end of the list, in capital letters, **Omniscient** is correct. THAT particular complaint has nothing to do with the actual lawsuit that prompted the thread, which was about proportions. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/169 "2011-01-27T23:32:13Z")
The thing I find ridiculous and misleading (although not lawsuit worthy) is that “seasoning”, to me, connotes a much smaller volume in the dish than 30% by weight. In my sauce on the stove right now, oregano, basil, fennel and maybe even the garlic are “seasonings.” The tomatoes, onions and ground beef in my sauce are _ingredients_, but not seasonings. And, while you’re right, **Jenaroph** , that people with allergies to food are best advised to avoid any amount of it, the same isn’t always true for food sensitivities. I’ve got a gluten free daughter who can handle the amount of wheat proteins in a serving of soy sauce. (She’s okay with Taco Bell Seasoned Beef, by the way, so the contamination, if any, of the oats must be pretty low.) And I \*do \*look at the position of wheat, rye and barley on the ingredient list to decide whether or not to risk feeding an item to her. A small amount is okay for her, a large amount is not. I have no idea if the governing bodies have declared how much of something can be put into a dish and still call it “seasoning,” but it \*feels \*scumbaggy at 30%. Without numbers, but looking at the ingredient list, I’d probably assume that, were my daughter’s intolerance to soy instead of wheat, the amount in “seasoning” might not be a problem, which I now realize might not be the case. Not gonna stop me from loving those Chalupas, though! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/170 "2011-01-27T23:37:58Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The thing I find ridiculous and misleading (although not lawsuit worthy) is that “seasoning”, to me, connotes a much smaller volume in the dish than 30% by weight. Taco Bell claims the final product has 3-5% spices, and 3-5% oats, starch, sugar, yeast, citric acid. Where are you getting the 30% figure from? ETA: And where do you pick up your TVP? I haven’t tried cooking with it yet, but my local store sells it for some ridiculous price (not in bulk, prepackaged, at something like $8/pound). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/171 "2011-01-27T23:45:20Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Taco Bell claims the final product has 3-5% spices, and 3-5% oats, starch, sugar, yeast, citric acid. > > Where are you getting the 30% figure from? > > ETA: And where do you pick up your TVP? I haven’t tried cooking with it yet, but my local store sells it for some ridiculous price (not in bulk, prepackaged, at something like $8/pound). I’ve gotten so confuddled with numbers in this thread, to be honest. But yes, let’s use yours. Ok, that would be then, 6-10% “Seasoning”, if the only ingredients are, eliminating the brackets, Beef, Water, Seasoning, Salt, Sodium Phosphates. The “seasoning” is where the everything else is, in brackets. 10% of a dish, by weight, as “Seasoning” still feels high. Again, I’m not saying they’re doing anything legally wrong, it’s just far more of anything I’d consider seasoning. Home Economist or JD Mills for TVP. Or, if I’m lucky and remember to look, Oakton Marketplace, but it’s hit or miss. ETA: I haven’t gotten any in over a year though, as it’s longer car trip than my grocery budget allows for for one item. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/172 "2011-01-27T23:57:02Z")
In other news: Class action lawsuits filed across the country against “mom” upon finding out that "meat"loaf is mostly loaf and very little meat. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/173 "2011-01-28T00:08:58Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I’ve gotten so confuddled with numbers in this thread, to be honest. But yes, let’s use yours. Ok, that would be then, 6-10% “Seasoning”, if the only ingredients are, eliminating the brackets, Beef, Water, Seasoning, Salt, Sodium Phosphates. The “seasoning” is where the everything else is, in brackets. > > 10% of a dish, by weight, as “Seasoning” still feels high. Again, I’m not saying they’re doing anything legally wrong, it’s just far more of anything I’d consider seasoning. Sure. That’s also the post-cooking numbers. On the other hand, for something as heavily spiced as taco or chili, that’s not too out there. For example my 1.5 oz taco seasoning packet calls for 1 pound of beef. That’s almost 10% seasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/174 "2011-01-28T00:45:40Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > 10% of a dish, by weight, as “Seasoning” still feels high. Again, I’m not saying they’re doing anything legally wrong, it’s just far more of anything I’d consider seasoning. Consider that it’s not a percentage of the entire dish, it’s the a percentage of the beef filling, between 3% and 5% spices, that other 3% to 5% is going to have the oat fibre, _plus onion powder, tomato powder, sugar, soy lecithin, yeast, starch, etc_. ie, it’s meat in a seasoned sauce, which is what you’d generally expect in a taco or burrito. The allegation is that Taco Bell is misrepresenting some other product as beef - that the meat you see in there was never acquainted with a cow, and this is not the case. If you make tacos at home, you’re going to chop up onions and tomatoes and throw 'em in there to make a nice sauce for the meat. So the processed food version of that it to start with powders, add water, and some texturizers. No big surprise. ~4% total volume (dry) for these ingredients is pretty trivial. This lawsuit focuses on the menu description just saying it’s made with “seasoned beef,” but omitting all these details, and equating this with packaging “beef” for sale with hidden adulterants. This is ridiculous, since there is no requirement or expectation that _promotional or menu copy_ exhaustively list all constituents. Reading a menu would be pretty tiresome if there was. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/175 "2011-01-28T01:30:25Z")
I feel like I’m posting a bit too much in this thread, sorry… but… I forgot that you made a distinction between spices and ingredients such as tomatoes and onions. I don’t think this is terribly misleading, because all of these ingredients together make a sauce, and it’s common usage to say that meat is “[seasoned with a sauce…](http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&xhr=t&q=%22seasoned+with+a+sauce+of%22&cp=26&pf=p&sclient=psy&safe=off&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=%22seasoned+with+a+sauce+of%22&pbx=1&fp=41ec39c3a53ad5e7)” ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/176 "2011-01-28T15:37:34Z")
Anyone paying more than $3 per pound for dry TVP is paying too much. Any number of places will sell it bulk on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/177 "2011-01-28T16:05:26Z")
[Taco Bell fights back.](http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2011-01-28-taco-bell-ads_N.htm) > [@](#): > > The print ads say, in huge letters, “Thank you for suing us. Here’s the truth about our seasoned beef.” They go on to outline the ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/178 "2011-01-28T18:36:35Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > After seeing this thread I decided to check out this Taco Bell place and it turns out they’ve opened their first two UK stores in the past 6 months. Maybe I’ll pop into one of them sometime if I’m nearby! > > The nutritional info isn’t up on the UK website yet but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t very similar to the US version. This TVP sounds like good stuff, I’d be more concerned about the beef. I’m guessing it’s mechanically recovered which is a bit gross. > > Still going to try a taco next time I’m near one though! Another Brit here and you’ve just expressed what I was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/179 "2011-01-28T18:37:03Z")
[Here’s the ad.](http://eater.com/archives/2011/01/28/taco-bell-ad-thanks-firm-for-law-suit.php) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875/180 "2011-01-28T21:03:32Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > [Taco Bell fights back.](http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2011-01-28-taco-bell-ads_N.htm) From the article: > [@](#): > > The case, [Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough fast-food litigation lawyer Marc] Williams said, is thin in potential legal liability. Lawyers would have to prove that most consumers expect and believe they are getting something other than what Taco Bell actually serves. Most fast-food customers, he said, realize taco meat has other ingredients besides beef. And the lawsuit cites U.S. Department of Agriculture guidelines for labeling ground beef, which don’t apply to restaurants. Since this conclusion is also easily arrived at by internet forum users of median intelligence, I expect that the plaintiffs are in for a world of hurt when (and if) this ever actually goes to court. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taco-bells-ground-beef-is-less-than-35-actual-meat/568875.md?page=10)