# Taiwan is trying to fend off its own Donald Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179 "2020-01-09T17:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/21 "2020-01-10T20:51:42Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > No matter who prevails in the 2020 presidential race, I give at most five years till PLA troops occupy Taipei. Want to bet? Because there have been predictions about this for decades, claiming that Taiwan will be occupied by PLA troops by the 1990s, 2000s, etc. > [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > What if she’s really the Trump and he’s really the Hillary? Care to elaborate…? This is a bit like, “What if Ted Cruz is the real liberal and Ocasio-Cortez is the real conservative?” ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/22 "2020-01-10T20:56:12Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > What if they just want you to make that analogy? What if she’s really the Trump and he’s really the Hillary?What is the origin of this comparison, and who is really behind it? Could it be an attempt at reverse psychology? What percent of Taiwanese voters are for/against/whatever Trump? Or is it propaganda intended for US voters? If only there was an entire OP, with links and cites, that you could read. Or you can continue your tenuous relationship with reality. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/23 "2020-01-10T21:04:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Want to bet? Because there have been predictions about this for decades, claiming that Taiwan will be occupied by PLA troops by the 1990s, 2000s, etc. Robert Reich, before the cabinet stint, gleefully proclaimed his prediction of the 1987 economic meltdown. He’d predicted it on weekly TV shows for over a decade and was eventually correct. He admitted that’s how it works. So I’ll pull a Reich on Taiwan. Predict something long enough and it’ll happen, probably. Except a North Korean invasion of the US. Probably. But I know better than to bet. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/24 "2020-01-11T11:32:37Z")
Well. Preliminary results have [Tsai absolutely eating Han’s lunch](https://international.thenewslens.com/interactive/126882) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/25 "2020-01-11T14:07:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Want to bet? Because there have been predictions about this for decades, claiming that Taiwan will be occupied by PLA troops by the 1990s, 2000s, etc. > > Care to elaborate…? This is a bit like, “What if Ted Cruz is the real liberal and Ocasio-Cortez is the real conservative?” Five years may be too short a window, but China will wait until the US influence in the region declines, which may happen sooner than we think. China’s inevitable annexation of Taiwan will probably be similar to how Russia has taken Crimea and how they will likely take more of the former Soviet Union: a combination of information and economic warfare first. They’d rather take Taiwan slowly and without a violent conflict if possible. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/26 "2020-01-11T14:17:05Z")
Final result: Hillary beats Trump by 18%. > **[Taiwan's 2020 General Elections: Live Map and Updates - The News Lens...](https://international.thenewslens.com/interactive/126882)** > > View live polling results and analyses on Taiwan's 2020 presidential and legislative elections on January 11, 2020. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/27 "2020-01-11T17:09:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > People get tired of the establishment and boring politicians who read from a teleprompter, and in come maverick upstart populists who promise the sky and use colorful language - and also who promise a return to the “good old days.” Or to “put the fat cats in their place”, so that in other world regions there’s also a \*left-\*wing trend of Nationalist Populists (such as Latin America where its biggest star was the late Hugo Chavez). Same thing: “the base” gets sick of the establishment politicians who make empty promises, and decide to go for the guy who’s out fo f\*\*ks to give. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/28 "2020-01-12T07:52:16Z")
It looks like, Tsai, whom you have metaphorically identified with Hillary, has won. Come join the celebration in the comments at [breitbart.com](http://breitbart.com): [US Officials Cheer Taiwanese President's Win over Pro-China Candidate](https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/11/u-s-and-taiwanese-officials-celebrate-president-tsais-re-election-victory-over-pro-beijing-candidate) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/29 "2020-01-12T09:52:38Z")
> [@Jim\_Peebles](#): > > It looks like, Tsai, whom you have metaphorically identified with Hillary, has won. Come join the celebration in the comments at [breitbart.com](http://breitbart.com): > [https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/11/u-s-and-taiwanese-officials-celebrate-president-tsais-re-election-victory-over-pro-beijing-candidate](https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/11/u-s-and-taiwanese-officials-celebrate-president-tsais-re-election-victory-over-pro-beijing-candidate) Yeah, it’s an oddity. Generally, Taiwan’s support in America comes mainly from Republicans and neocons in particular (such as Steve Bannon, John Bolton, Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, etc.) even though the pro-independence party in Taiwan (DPP) is a liberal party that is feminist, pro-LGBT, anti-death-penalty, etc. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/30 "2020-01-12T14:25:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It’s a case of legalese and the KMT dancing around words. On paper, they say Taiwan is the “real China,” and that they hope for a future unification under a China that’s not ruled by the CCP. But in practice, everyone knows perfectly well that the CCP rules China permanently, that Taiwan isn’t “really” China and that any future unification is only going to happen under the CCP’s terms. I disagree with most of this. Not only dont most Taiwanese want to be part of a CCP ruled China, but Han Chinese are not the native population. And if you think that the CCP is going to rule China permanently than you havent read any Chinese history. 2 of the last three Chinese dynasties were non Han and foreign (by way of conquest). Also Han arent the native population. Also, the whole Trump v Hillary thing is a bizarre analogy. There is literally little or no similarity between the two. If you must make an analogy, I would guess a Ukrainian election cycle might be a better match. > [@](#): > > Taiwan’s support in America comes mainly from Republicans and neocons in particular (such as Steve Bannon, John Bolton, Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, etc.) even though the pro-independence party in Taiwan (DPP) is a liberal party that is feminist, pro-LGBT, anti-death-penalty, etc. Again, this is the strangest thing I have read. Are you arguing that Dems favor China conquering Taiwan in a similar way to Russia absorbing the Crimea? Name me a handful of Dems who support Chinas absorption of Taiwan? The OP sounds like thinly veiled Chinese propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/31 "2020-01-12T14:32:22Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Or to “put the fat cats in their place”, so that in other world regions there’s also a \*left-\*wing trend of Nationalist Populists (such as Latin America where its biggest star was the late Hugo Chavez). Same thing: “the base” gets sick of the establishment politicians who make empty promises, and decide to go for the guy who’s out fo f\*\*ks to give. The CCR has always been rabidly nationalistic. Starting with the Sino Japanese war. They have had some level of military adventure against many of her neighbors (Vietnam, India, USSR). They are a neocolonial government. Look at recent Chinese activity in Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/32 "2020-01-12T21:24:37Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Not only don’t most Taiwanese want to be part of a CCP ruled China, but Han Chinese are not the native population. Han Chinese may not be the “native population,” but they comprise [98% of the populace.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1873959816000107) > [@madsircool](#): > > Also, the whole Trump v Hillary thing is a bizarre analogy. There is literally little or no similarity between the two. It’s not just me making the comparison. As cited above, others have compared the two to Hillary and Trump as well. > **[The Troubling Parallels between Tsai and Clinton: Misogyny in Taiwan’s...](https://ketagalanmedia.com/2019/06/11/troubling-parallels-tsai-clinton-misogyny-taiwan-politics/)** > > Tsai tried to appease hawks and progressives in her party, without losing centrist voters of Taiwan. It left her criticized by all, like Clinton in 2016. > **[Taiwan's Han Kuo-yu offers uncomfortable echoes of Donald Trump](https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Taiwan-s-Han-Kuo-yu-offers-uncomfortable-echoes-of-Donald-Trump)** > > Kuomintang candidate's supporters like his raucous, anti-intellectual populism > [@madsircool](#): > > Again, this is the strangest thing I have read. This article notes that Taiwan’s main supporters tend to be Republicans such as Cruz, Rubio, etc. > **[The Island the Left Neglected - Dissent Magazine](https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/island-left-neglected-taiwan-dppp-tsai/)** > > If the American left is serious about opposing a reactionary foreign policy that preserves unequal power relations, it should speak up for Taiwan. > [@madsircool](#): > > The OP sounds like thinly veiled Chinese propaganda. If I were to write Chinese propaganda, I sure wouldn’t be comparing a pro-China candidate to Trump, a disliked figure. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/33 "2020-01-12T21:59:21Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Again, this is the strangest thing I have read. Are you arguing that Dems favor China conquering Taiwan in a similar way to Russia absorbing the Crimea? Name me a handful of Dems who support Chinas absorption of Taiwan? What a bizarre reaction and query; I’m not sure you understood what you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/34 "2020-01-13T01:01:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Final result: Hillary beats Trump by 18%. > > [Taiwan's 2020 General Elections: Live Map and Updates - The News Lens International Edition](https://international.thenewslens.com/interactive/126882) Actually it was “Taiwan will decide its own destiny” Tsai (57%) winning a LANDSLIDE victory against Communist China supported Han (38%). President Tsia has absolutely nothing in common with Hillary and Han has nothing in common with President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/35 "2020-01-13T02:09:13Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > President Tsai has absolutely nothing in common with Hillary and Han has nothing in common with President Trump. Again… > **[The Troubling Parallels between Tsai and Clinton: Misogyny in Taiwan’s...](https://ketagalanmedia.com/2019/06/11/troubling-parallels-tsai-clinton-misogyny-taiwan-politics/)** > > Tsai tried to appease hawks and progressives in her party, without losing centrist voters of Taiwan. It left her criticized by all, like Clinton in 2016. > **[Taiwan's Han Kuo-yu offers uncomfortable echoes of Donald Trump](https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Taiwan-s-Han-Kuo-yu-offers-uncomfortable-echoes-of-Donald-Trump)** > > Kuomintang candidate's supporters like his raucous, anti-intellectual populism ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/36 "2020-01-13T04:47:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Again… > > [The Troubling Parallels between Tsai and Clinton: Misogyny in Taiwan’s Politics   - Ketagalan Media](http://www.ketagalanmedia.com/2019/06/11/troubling-parallels-tsai-clinton-misogyny-taiwan-politics/) > > [Taiwan's Han Kuo-yu offers uncomfortable echoes of Donald Trump - Nikkei Asia](https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Taiwan-s-Han-Kuo-yu-offers-uncomfortable-echoes-of-Donald-Trump) Tsai has the best interests of the Taiwanese people in mind and beat the Chinese Communist supported Han. Hillary has the best interests of Wall Street in mind and as Secretary of State did nothing to prevent the sale to Communist Russia of US uranium. Because of this Tsai was a landslide WINNER and Hillary was a landslide LOSER (304-227). From your article “There are many reasons why Hillary Clinton eventually lost the 2016 election that are unique and not applicable to President Tsai’s current predicament…” Are they similar because they are both women? Han accepted support from Communist China. President Trump hates Communism and has placed the harshest sanctions on Communist China and Communist Russia that have ever been placed on it by a US President. Are they similar because they are both men? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179/37 "2020-01-13T05:44:49Z")
Communist Russia? Are we back in the 80s? AND bringing back the Uranium One “scandal”. Too bad Russia can’t actually use that uranium… Congratulations on ignoring all the evidence to support the case and offering your own “facts”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-is-trying-to-fend-off-its-own-donald-trump/846179.md?page=1)