# Taiwan presidential election -- China-friendly incumbent, Chinaphobe challenger **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 13, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439 "2012-01-13T21:57:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/21 "2012-01-16T21:01:48Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Not only that, the KMT years ago implemented a very successful socialized medicine program, and this time around ran on promises to make rich landowners pay more taxes. Does that put a kink in your colon, Qin?😛 ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/22 "2012-01-17T00:32:26Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Its always weird when conservatives in the US tries to talk up conservatives in another country. You do know that your nationalism is often in conflict with foreign conservatism, right? Using Taiwan as an example, if Ma is conservative, then he represents things like greater ties with China, closer political relationships with a communist country, and probably less trade restrictions and business alliances. Tell me, in the US, are Republicans happy that China’s using devalued currency to beat us in trade and taking American jobs? Or are they simply seeing that China would do business with Sudan and not care about their human rights record? Or maybe the elite business side of the GOP is happy about doing business without caring about slave wages in foreign countries? Or are they mad that China’s manufacturing and worker protection laws (or lack thereof) offers cheap labor and little protection? > > But I’m interested to hear you explain why you are less for the “liberal” Tsai, who apparently wants to have less to do with China and more independence and freedom from the mainland. Independence and freedom, something liberals are for and you’re against, then? :dubious: KMT’s Taiwan isn’t going to join China as long as its Communist. But I’m a bit of a Sinophile (culturally) due to my admiration for Confucius and would like to see China reunited someday. And I support a strengthened economic relationship with Chna, China is too large to make an enemy. > [@Koxinga](#): > > Not only that, the KMT years ago implemented a very successful socialized medicine program, and this time around ran on promises to make rich landowners pay more taxes. The land reform in Taiwan was necessary, as it was in most countries without the Anglo-American yeomen tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/23 "2012-01-17T01:01:10Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > The land reform in Taiwan was necessary, as it was in most countries without the Anglo-American yeomen tradition. Not talking about historical land reform. I’m talking about here, today, everyone is up in arms about unaffordable housing and the KMT is promising, here, today, to tax property owners and bring “fairness” to the market. BTW, if you _do_ want to look at history, Chiang Kai-shek was no friend of capitalists (who were not his immediate relations) and the KMT was founded on a Leninist model with help of Soviet advisers. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/24 "2012-01-17T12:14:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hm. I wonder, if Tsai wins, how will that still-more-complicate relations between Taiwan, the PRC, and every country that has to deal with either? Given that the pro-independance DPP has already held the presidency (2000-2008), the idea that electing Tsai would have led to intolerable tension with the mainland is specious. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/25 "2012-01-17T21:50:47Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > KMT’s Taiwan isn’t going to join China as long as its Communist. But I’m a bit of a Sinophile (culturally) due to my admiration for Confucius and would like to see China reunited someday. > > And I support a strengthened economic relationship with Chna, China is too large to make an enemy. That doesn’t really answer the question why you are simply favoring conservatism across the board when foreign conservatism is more than likely less amenable to the US. What you should be favoring is conservatism in American but more liberalism in foreign countries. Conservative movement towards a One China future would result in a more entrenched nationalism that will compete with the US, whereas a more liberal China and Taiwan means more economic trade balance, to put it simply. I don’t think the words you are using means what you think they mean. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/26 "2012-01-17T23:41:26Z")
Qin Shihuangdi reminds me of [this guy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=d1wSZBTAXRs#t=120s) (on the right, from 2:00). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/27 "2012-01-18T00:15:17Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Qin Shihuangdi reminds me of [this guy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=d1wSZBTAXRs#t=120s) (on the right, from 2:00). If I were he, I’d annex the Sudetenland. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439/28 "2012-01-18T00:54:41Z")
I think the most profound repercussions of this election will be in China. The combination of mainland tourists in Taiwan to observe this time, combined with the sudden rise of a Twitter-like blogging service, will be like when Picard sent “Hugh” back to the Borg. From NYT, “[Taiwan Election Stirs Hopes Among Chinese for Democracy](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/world/asia/taiwan-vote-stirs-chinese-hopes-for-democracy.html)”: > [@](#): > > Interest in the race snowballed in recent weeks and a number of high-profile mainland businessmen decided to travel to Taiwan to see the contest up close. Among them was Wang Shi, one of China’s biggest real estate tycoons, who sent out regular microblog dispatches from political rallies. “Everything went orderly and there were no surprises,” he wrote over the weekend to his four million followers. “The political environment has really matured.” > > Another mainland businessman who spent several days in Taiwan said the election had a profound impact on his understanding of politics. Seated on a plane bound for Beijing on Sunday night, he described how he had been led to believe that Taiwan’s democracy was chaotic and shallow, its elections prone to violence. Not anymore, he said. > > “This is an amazing idea, to be able to choose the people who represent you,” said the man, who asked to remain nameless so he could speak without restraint. “I think democracy will come to China. It’s only a matter of time.” > > But it seems the most telling commentary on the election was a joke that had been forwarded thousands of times in recent days. A Taiwanese man brags to his Chinese friend that he will go to the polls in the morning and know the results that evening. “You guys are too backward,” the Chinese friend responds. “If we had to vote tomorrow morning, we would already know who is elected by tonight.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taiwan-presidential-election-china-friendly-incumbent-chinaphobe-challenger/609439.md?page=1)