# Take Confederate names off US Army bases? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 10, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336 "2020-06-10T00:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/1 "2020-06-10T00:33:54Z")
I agree with this idea. It might actually happen. For 50 years I have lived 45 miles from Ft. Bragg and only a few years ago I read that it was named for a confederate general. I just assumed it was named for a US army soldier. My Dad was at Bragg and Ft. Benning in WW 2. [Take the Confederate Names Off Our Army Bases - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/take-confederate-names-off-our-army-bases/612832/) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/2 "2020-06-10T00:37:56Z")
It’s pretty weird we named bases after the enemy, how about Fort bin Laden? ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/3 "2020-06-10T00:42:53Z")
Southerners still want to fight the Civil War . That’s why you still see the confederate flag all over the south. SC only took it down from their captial a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/4 "2020-06-10T13:11:55Z")
Well, if you have to name something after an oath-breaking Confederate general, Bragg would be the one you want - apparently he did far more for the North than he did for the South: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Bragg is generally considered among the worst generals of the Civil War. Most of the battles in which he engaged ended in defeats. Bragg was extremely unpopular with both the men and the officers of his command, who criticized him for numerous perceived faults, including poor battlefield strategy, a quick temper, and overzealous discipline. Bragg has a generally poor reputation with historians, while some point towards the failures of Bragg’s subordinates, especially Leonidas Polk, a close ally of Davis and known enemy of Bragg, as more significant factors in the many Confederate defeats at which Bragg commanded. The losses which Bragg suffered are cited as principal factors in the ultimate defeat of the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/5 "2020-06-10T20:39:51Z")
You will never guess who vetoed this idea. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/6 "2020-06-10T20:56:20Z")
Especially given that most of these Confederate-commemorating names seem to have been bestowed in the 1920s-'40s, over half a century after the Civil War ended, I don’t really see a justification for them. [This source describes them as](https://www.gctelegram.com/ZZ/news/20200610/trump-no-change-at-bases-named-for-confederate-officers) “in some cases gestures of conciliation to the South”, but dude, you shouldn’t still need “conciliating” fifty years after losing a treasonous rebellion for the cause of white supremacy. Nope, AFAICT any efforts for “conciliating the South” in the early 20th century just mean “accommodating resurgent white-nationalist bigotry and anti-black intimidation”. (An attitude that was by no means confined to the South, either.) Yes, it’s possible to make a reasonable case for the subsequent historical and cultural significance of these military base names for generations of soldiers, independently of their Confederate-glorifying origins. But such arguments should be treated as the **start** of the debate on renaming, not excuses for shutting it down. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/7 "2020-06-10T22:24:27Z")
The monuments and the naming of bases for confederates was part of a conscious effort to rewrite history and often coincided with efforts to oppose segregation . ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/8 "2020-06-10T22:46:14Z")
The predictable defense ‘_you can’t take down those names because they reflect American history and heritage_’ is weak. This nation has been in existence for 244 years; the rebel generals were rebel generals for less than four of those 244. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/9 "2020-06-11T02:54:39Z")
I’m comfortable using the word “traitor” at this point. Change the name, take down the monuments, remove the flags. Why would we as a nation continue to encourage division by glorifying the losers of the Civil War? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/10 "2020-06-11T04:04:03Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The monuments and the naming of bases for confederates was part of a conscious effort to rewrite history and often coincided with efforts to oppose segregation . Seems unlikely. Fort Bragg California was named before the Civil War for Braxton Bragg who was then a captain in the US Army. Fort Bragg NC (the real Fort Bragg) was named about 1918 for the same guy, who was a local boy. As far as I know there were no big moves against segregation in 1918. As for myself, I like old names. I dislike names like Joint Forces Base Fort Worth or Joint Base Lewis-McChord. Nothing wrong with being a money-saving joint base, it just seems an awkward way to say “Fort Lewis.” Oh, don’t forget Fort Alexander Hamilton in Brooklyn. He traded in slaves. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/11 "2020-06-11T04:15:35Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > As far as I know there were no big moves against segregation in 1918. Seriously? that was about the pinnacle of Jim Crow. [Timeline of Confederate Monuments](https://www.businessinsider.com/confederate-statues-meaning-timeline-history-2017-8) > [@That article](#): > > As you can see in the timeline below, the number of Confederate memorial installations peaked around 1910 — 50 years after the end of the Civil War and **at the height of Jim Crow** , an era defined by segregation and disenfranchisement laws against black Americans. Confederate installations spiked again in the 1950s and 1960s, during the Civil Rights Movement. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/12 "2020-06-11T04:17:48Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Fort Bragg NC (the real Fort Bragg) was named about 1918 for the same guy, who was a local boy. As far as I know there were no big moves against segregation in 1918. Wow. [Lynching Statistics by Year](http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingyear.html) ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/13 "2020-06-11T04:29:39Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Fort Bragg California was named before the Civil War for Braxton Bragg who was then a captain in the US Army. Fort Bragg NC (the real Fort Bragg) was named about 1918 for the same guy, who was a local boy. As far as I know there were no big moves against segregation in 1918. [Fort Bragg, NC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Bragg) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > is named for **Confederate General** Braxton Bragg So…? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/14 "2020-06-11T08:50:47Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Seriously? that was about the pinnacle of Jim Crow. > > [Timeline of Confederate Monuments](https://www.businessinsider.com/confederate-statues-meaning-timeline-history-2017-8) Yes. 1918 was not a time that “coincided with efforts to oppose segregation.” Segregation was (as far as I know) well-established and unchallenged. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/15 "2020-06-11T13:36:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This source describes them as “in some cases gestures of conciliation to the South”, but dude, you shouldn’t still need “conciliating” fifty years after losing a treasonous rebellion for the cause of white supremacy. > > Nope, AFAICT any efforts for “conciliating the South” in the early 20th century just mean “accommodating resurgent white-nationalist bigotry and anti-black intimidation”. (An attitude that was by no means confined to the South, either.) ISTM the people being “conciliated” at this point were the Dixiecrat Congressmen and Senators in the respective states (which comes down to about the same thing as you’re describing, come to think of it), for the sake of the budgeting. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/16 "2020-06-11T13:47:41Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The predictable defense ‘_you can’t take down those names because they reflect American history and heritage_’ is weak. This nation has been in existence for 244 years; the rebel generals were rebel generals for less than four of those 244. This. And Southern Anglo-Saxon heritage goes all the way back to 1607, so we’re really talking 4 years out of 413. If they’re going to make a special point to honor _this particular four years_ of their long heritage, there’s only one believable explanation of what that’s been all about. And it’s well past time for it to be over. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/17 "2020-06-11T14:00:33Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Fort Bragg NC (the real Fort Bragg) was named about 1918 for the same guy, who was a local boy. As far as I know there were no big moves against segregation in 1918. > > . In 1913, segregation was **reintroduced** to the Civil Service, by Woodrow Wilson, who was still President in 1918 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/18 "2020-06-11T14:02:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Paul in Qatar** : > > Oh, don’t forget Fort Alexander Hamilton in Brooklyn. He traded in slaves. Sigh. This old argument again? Have you read any of the thousands of times it’s been refuted? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/19 "2020-06-11T14:23:34Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Seems unlikely. > > Fort Bragg California was named before the Civil War for Braxton Bragg who was then a captain in the US Army. > Fort Bragg NC (the real Fort Bragg) was named about 1918 for the same guy, who was a local boy. As far as I know there were no big moves against segregation in 1918. > > As for myself, I like old names. I dislike names like Joint Forces Base Fort Worth or Joint Base Lewis-McChord. Nothing wrong with being a money-saving joint base, it just seems an awkward way to say “Fort Lewis.” > > Oh, don’t forget Fort Alexander Hamilton in Brooklyn. He traded in slaves. I agree that old school names sound cooler. The simple solution then would be not to give the bases in question modern names, but rather to substitute the names of Union generals, or generals from other wars. There’s plenty to pick from. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336/20 "2020-06-11T14:27:23Z")
The Confederate States of America was a racist slave state. It was worse than South Africa even when that country was at its very worst. NOTHING about the Confederacy should be honored in any way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-confederate-names-off-us-army-bases/855336.md?page=2)