# Take her at her word, or have I been friendzoned? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 5, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897 "2015-02-05T16:01:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/61 "2015-02-06T16:37:20Z")
Post 55 reads to me like the OP has figured it out for himself, showing consideration for the young woman’s internal conflicts and ultimate decision. Men and women get frustrated when they focus on their crush as withholding a relationship they deserve. It’s a mental process call an idée fixe, and like all idée fixes (such the practice as waging arguments you’d like to make on message boards despite the fact that that it not what’s under discussion), it’s hard to snap out of. The best solution is to draw your focus away from “I deserve someone based on time & effort invested; assessed compatibility; his or her hotness; how beautiful our babies would be, etc.” to “I deserve someone who wants me as much as I want them.” I’ve used this method after years of disastrous alternative thinking (which included the subconscious assumption that a relationship in my adult years would come to counterbalance the shitty times of my childhood. That idée fixe had to go, too). ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/62 "2015-02-06T17:06:29Z")
My theory: The girl just got out of a long relationship and was interested in maybe some getting some fresh action w/ no strings attached as many people out of long relationships do. Possibly had interest in getting that action from the OP here, but in their initial interactions and conversations either a) decided that he was a big ol’ “nope” on that option, or b) he indicated that he’s looking for love and a real relationship (nothing wrong with this) at which point she decided “oh well, I was just hoping for a quick lay or two but this is gonna be too much work.” Girls can be hounds too, you know. And that’s not a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lowdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Lowdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowdown)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/63 "2015-02-06T17:14:27Z")
Dude, if you want to get in the pants then you need to lead with that. By day two she’s already decided if she would sleep with you or not. If that’s what you’re in it for, then get it out of the way early. NOT like, ‘To the bed, woman!’ but make it clear you’re interested in a date-date. If you go in all buddy-buddy and then spring it on her later, that’s not the best. That’s like “Hey! Do you want to be friends? … With my penis?” It’s no good. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/64 "2015-02-06T18:18:15Z")
The focus on “If only you’d rolled out your desire to fuck her earlier you would have had a chance” is misguided. The whole “women decide in five minutes whether you’re fuckable” is also kind of sad. It’s certainly true that women have criteria by which they judge whether someone is a potential romantic partner, but the “five seconds” rule implies that if you put on a good display in the first five seconds you’re fuckable, but if you come off as lame in that five seconds you’re a scrub, and a scrub forever. That’s not how it works. Women aren’t exactly the same as men, it’s true, but they’re still human beings. Guys, I’ve had more than one female friend that I knew for years, and later started a romantic relationship with. How is that possible? I was friendzoned! I was deemed a loser! She decided in 5 seconds she didn’t want to fuck me! So how the heck am I married to a woman that I had been friends with for 3 years before we started a romantic relationship? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/65 "2015-02-06T18:23:33Z")
She wants you to make a big show of it. On Valentines Day, serenade her outside her window dressed as a cupid with a bow and arrow. Decorate your car’s outside with flowers and hearts and drive up to wherever she lives to take her out. Stay in the outfit. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/66 "2015-02-06T18:29:34Z")
Dudes act like not bagging a woman is a tragedy on their quest to get laid, but having a platonic girlfriend is a valuable asset. If you make a good impression you can leverage it so she hooks you up with her friends. There’s also a general social benefit in hanging out with lots of women. Just like getting a job, it pays to network. No reason to go it alone. > [@Anaamika](#): > > No one ever talks about the other side of it. Here I am, being friends with you, trying to get to know you better, really appreciating that I can just talk to you, when I find out all you ever wanted to do was fuck me. And somehow _I_ am the one in the wrong? The discontinuity is that women generally like male companionship for its own sake, whereas a lot of guys place very little value on female companionship. For a lot of straight men there’s only one reason to interact with women. The actual socializing is a means to an end, if not just part of the cost of sex – they find a woman’s company a total waste of their time and literally don’t care about anything you have to say and just play along. A lot of women know that men are obsessed with sex to an extent, but not the underlying disdain that leads to quotes like “you don’t pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her to leave afterward.” * * * [This study](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/) touches on the psychology of platonic friendships. > [@](#): > > The results suggest large gender differences in how men and women experience opposite-sex friendships. Men were much more attracted to their female friends than vice versa. Men were also more likely than women to think that their opposite-sex friends were attracted to them—a clearly misguided belief. In fact, men’s estimates of how attractive they were to their female friends had virtually nothing to do with how these women actually felt, and almost everything to do with how the men themselves felt—basically, males assumed that any romantic attraction they experienced was mutual, and were blind to the actual level of romantic interest felt by their female friends. Women, too, were blind to the mindset of their opposite-sex friends; because females generally were not attracted to their male friends, they assumed that this lack of attraction was mutual. As a result, men consistently overestimated the level of attraction felt by their female friends and women consistently underestimated the level of attraction felt by their male friends. One of the biggest “no shit, Sherlock” studies of all time if you ask me, but news to some people. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/67 "2015-02-06T18:35:01Z")
My problem with “friendzone” as a concept is that is seems to accept these assumptions as facts: 1. Women like having male friends because they like male attention 2. No man actually wants a female “friend”: men prefer the company of men, and the only place for a non-family woman is as a romantic partner. 3. Women understand this, and so have to “trick” men into being friends by using the hope of sex as a lure. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/68 "2015-02-06T19:17:32Z")
I think people are being waaaaay too defensive with regards to the word “friendzone”. No it doesn’t mean a guy was “tricked” in to becoming a friend. It doesn’t assume women do it just because they are starving for male attention. It just means she likes a guy all right but with no romantic interest. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/69 "2015-02-06T19:26:19Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think people are being waaaaay too defensive with regards to the word “friendzone”. No it doesn’t mean a guy was “tricked” in to becoming a friend. It doesn’t assume women do it just because they are starving for male attention. It just means she likes a guy all right but with no romantic interest. That’s it. It implies that the woman has done something wrong (whether through deceit or not), and implies that ‘just’ being friends with a woman is undesirable. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/70 "2015-02-06T19:33:09Z")
It doesn’t imply she did something wrong. It’s just something the guy didn’t want. And yes, when a guy uses the term it means he probably doesn’t desire a friendship. So what? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/71 "2015-02-06T19:41:56Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It doesn’t imply she did something wrong. It’s just something the guy didn’t want. And yes, when a guy uses the term it means he probably doesn’t desire a friendship. So what? Not desiring a friendship is fine. Using a term that suggests that friendships with women are worthless without sex is a bit objectifying. ---
**Author:** ![Lowdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Lowdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowdown)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/72 "2015-02-06T19:57:21Z")
Not sure if you were responding to me, but I’m going to assume so if that’s cool. If not, sorry dude! > [@Lemur866](#): > > The focus on “If only you’d rolled out your desire to fuck her earlier you would have had a chance” is misguided. Nonono. If OP’s interested in a relationship only, then it’s better for all involved to get that out of the way early. It has nothing to do with his chances. > [@Lemur866](#): > > The whole “women decide in five minutes whether you’re fuckable” is also kind of sad. > > It’s certainly true that women have criteria by which they judge whether someone is a potential romantic partner, but the “five seconds” rule implies that if you put on a good display in the first five seconds you’re fuckable, but if you come off as lame in that five seconds you’re a scrub, and a scrub forever. That’s not how it works. Women aren’t exactly the same as men, it’s true, but they’re still human beings. > > Guys, I’ve had more than one female friend that I knew for years, and later started a romantic relationship with. How is that possible? I was friendzoned! I was deemed a loser! She decided in 5 seconds she didn’t want to fuck me! So how the heck am I married to a woman that I had been friends with for 3 years before we started a romantic relationship? My use of a female pronoun does not indicate some sweeping generalization about all women everywhere. Serious Q: Do you _not_ decide if you’d sleep with someone upon meeting them? I mean, yeah probably not the specific ‘I want to see you naked.’, but you’re either attracted or you’re not. That’s not the sort of thing that grows on me. I have never in my life looked at one of my female friends and thought, “Well, now that I’ve gotten to know you, it has dawned on me that I have interest in being in your pants.” That’s not a thing that has happened to me. I meet you, and afterward your chances pretty much stay the same or go down. Am I an outlier here? \*\*Edited to add: Also, holy crap. This girl has done nothing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/73 "2015-02-06T19:57:50Z")
Friendzone is a useful term for those guys who are just looking for a romantic relationship. Certainly men and women can be friends, but some guys are just pretending to be friends in order to have a relationship. They think that by continuing to hang around, do nice things, and be “friendly”, she’ll eventually have a change of heart. By calling it friendzone, it’s clarifies the issue. If the only thing he wants is a romantic relationship, it lets him know that’s not really a possibility. If he truly wants to be friends–not a phony, facade of a friend–then it shouldn’t be a problem to be in the friendzone. And the irony is, if he can truly let go and just be friends, then there may be a chance for something more to develop. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/74 "2015-02-06T20:12:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not desiring a friendship is fine. Using a term that suggests that friendships with women are worthless without sex is a bit objectifying. A lot of women like being objectified once in awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/75 "2015-02-06T20:27:52Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think people are being waaaaay too defensive with regards to the word “friendzone”. No it doesn’t mean a guy was “tricked” in to becoming a friend. It doesn’t assume women do it just because they are starving for male attention. It just means she likes a guy all right but with no romantic interest. That’s it. Sure, using the term might not indicate the poisonous views ascribed to it, but look at the first page of this thread. How many posters suggested she was “playing” him? How many times was it suggested that she was doing it for attention? I don’t have any strong indications that OP is particularly bad, but it is pretty hard to say that attitude doesn’t exist in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/76 "2015-02-06T20:48:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not desiring a friendship is fine. Using a term that suggests that friendships with women are worthless without sex is a bit objectifying. It also has this annoying, condescending quality of generalizing for all men–that men in general find women boring and alien. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/77 "2015-02-06T22:32:03Z")
I dunno, but I think people are being overly harsh on the OP. The thing that stuck out to me is that she discussed Valentine’s Day extensively with him. Now she could have been planning some sort of singles hang out that night, but without being specific that just suggesting a date. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/78 "2015-02-06T22:51:26Z")
Of course she gave him reason to believe that she wouldn’t be shocked if he asked her out. And she wasn’t shocked, when he asked her out she told him that she’d been expecting it. So she knew that her actions could have encouraged him, and maybe at the time she really was encouraging him, but that she had decided she wasn’t ready for a romantic relationship (with him). Of course “I’m not ready” is just one of those things people say when they don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings, it should be understood as “No thanks”. She didn’t roll her eyes, she didn’t point and laugh, she didn’t slap him in the face when he asked her out, she didn’t roll a die to arbitrarily put him the the “fuckable” or “loser” category. The only thing I’ll harsh on him for is the word “friendzone” and the attitude behind it. Holding on to that sort of mindset isn’t going to help him in his future quest for romance with someone else. He’s entitled to feel disappointed that her apparent initial interest in him isn’t going to develop, but blaming her for doing something wrong, or blaming himself for not acting alpha-male-y enough is counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/79 "2015-02-06T23:15:52Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > My problem with “friendzone” as a concept is that is seems to accept these assumptions as facts: > > 1. Women like having male friends because they like male attention > 2. No man actually wants a female “friend”: men prefer the company of men, and the only place for a non-family woman is as a romantic partner. > 3. Women understand this, and so have to “trick” men into being friends by using the hope of sex as a lure. Not a completely true set of assumptions, but not completely untrue either. It’s a lot easier to be “friends” with a woman you have little to no sexual interest in, or attraction to. If men knew definitively upfront that they had absolutely no shot with women they considered approachable relationship-wise they would be far less attentive to them, or interested in being buddies with them. I realize this is offensive on various levels, but if you are in the cohort of women they consider attractive, datable or approachable and sex is not remotely on the table male interest in being platonic friends with you is likely to be minimal, or if they find you interesting physically and intellectually (and sex is still a known no go) they will avoid you so as to not be frustrated. Being platonic buddies with someone you potentially want to fuck is emotionally challenging for men, and sometimes it’s best to avoid the temptation entirely. If sexual interest is off the table friendship is much, much easier. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2015, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897/80 "2015-02-07T03:13:27Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It also has this annoying, condescending quality of generalizing for all men–that men in general find women boring and alien. Hmm, you mean like this guy? > [@CGav8r](#): > > Well, I dated a lot before I got married, I’ve been married for 20+ years, and I have lots of female friends, but I’ll level with you: > > I still have no idea about what women are thinking about 99% of the time. > Good luck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-her-at-her-word-or-have-i-been-friendzoned/711897.md?page=5)