# Take off for religious reasons **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 1, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413 "2014-05-01T03:23:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/21 "2014-05-01T16:22:31Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > So great, everyone gets Sunday off. Doctors, nurses, utility workers all get a day off, we shut down all the restaurants, police and fire stations, internet service providers and cable companies close, airplanes don’t fly, trains don’t run, trucks come to a grinding halt, which is just as well, because all the gas stations and truck stops are closed. The drivers could put in in a motel but it’s Sunday, and they’re all closed too. Cows don’t get fed or milked. You see where I’m going with this? > > Some people have to work religious holidays. I’m happy for everyone who works for a company powered by unicorn farts in Candyland, but in reality land the Sabbath is just another workday for a lot people, and you’d have trouble maintaining society without it. Wow, talk about the excluded middle. There’s a world of difference between “I’d like these two specific days off in September, please” and the world having to shut down completely on Sundays. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/22 "2014-05-01T16:25:54Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > So great, everyone gets Sunday off. Doctors, nurses, utility workers all get a day off, we shut down all the restaurants, police and fire stations, internet service providers and cable companies close, airplanes don’t fly, trains don’t run, trucks come to a grinding halt, which is just as well, because all the gas stations and truck stops are closed. The drivers could put in in a motel but it’s Sunday, and they’re all closed too. Cows don’t get fed or milked. You see where I’m going with this? > > Some people have to work religious holidays. I’m happy for everyone who works for a company powered by unicorn farts in Candyland, but in reality land the Sabbath is just another workday for a lot people, and you’d have trouble maintaining society without it. Hey, I totally get it, you live in the real world, growl snarl grumble. I’m sure Alec Baldwin will play you in the movie they will definitely make about you. But here in Upper Unicorn-Fartland, not everyone needs the same days off. We all pick up the slack for each other, and the people in charge cheerfully recognize that if the work is getting done - and it is, because I’ll cover for the guy down the hall when he can’t be here and he’ll cover for me when I can’t - then there’s really no need to puff out their chests and bluster about how _anyone who wants a day off can just hit the bricks, pal, because that’s not how we do it in the real world._ ---
**Author:** ![Krouget](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@Krouget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krouget)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/23 "2014-05-01T16:33:11Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > You’d be astonished at how many high school graduates earning $80,000 a year don’t think the way you do. Hell, some of the older ones aren’t even high school graduates. With a little overtime some of them earn $100,000. We haven’t had an employee leave voluntarily in years. I’m actually not surprised, given the way I think is something I’ve learned through experience-- it’s certainly not something I would have understood coming out of high school. Enough people are either fine with those circumstances or willing to bear them, otherwise it wouldn’t be the case. However, for me, what I posted still stands. There are just too many opportunities and circumstances I have control of, to think otherwise. If the culture of your business is as you describe, and it works, then it works. I choose to force a balance between the two (quality of life and money), because you cannot get time back. I’d imagine this is even more the case for people who are theistic. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/24 "2014-05-01T18:24:30Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > And exploited [me, for working wage hours on holidays when I get paid salary, so wage-paid people can have the holiday off]. Not really. I freely chose to do it, and the total number of hours I put in came to about 80 in a year. It built good will, and made other people’s lives easier, so they were more inclined to do things for me, like covering stuff for me when the office was open but I wasn’t there, on the Jewish holidays. We took care of a vulnerable population, and so the job simply couldn’t be left undone, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/25 "2014-05-01T18:39:37Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Wow, talk about the excluded middle. There’s a world of difference between “I’d like these two specific days off in September, please” and the world having to shut down completely on Sundays. Oh, I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about people having to miss time on the Sabbath for religious reasons, because of the OP up there on the top of the page. My bad, I shouldn’t have bothered to read it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/26 "2014-05-01T19:47:38Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Oh, I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about people having to miss time on the Sabbath for religious reasons, because of the OP up there on the top of the page. My bad, I shouldn’t have bothered to read it. > [@TexanCountryboy](#): > > Ive heard a person can legally force their employer to grant them him off for religious purposes. Is this true? **For example** : if one requests to be off from Friday night sundown till Saturday night (the Sabbath), does their employer have to grant it? Right- that was _an_ example of taking time off for religious reasons, other examples are not precluded by the OP. The OP was more generalized. However, even if we limited it to just taking the sabbath off your hyperbole still excludes the middle- my sabbath might be different than someones else’s so, and other people may not observe any holidays at all, so the world will not cease to function. My “two days in September” example was referencing the Jewish High Holy days (Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur). I guess that was too obscure. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/27 "2014-05-02T13:34:22Z")
Time for a factual answer. [Reasonable accommodation](http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm), Federal government page. Scroll to fourth item. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/28 "2014-05-02T13:39:47Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Time for a factual answer. > > [Reasonable accommodation](http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm), Federal government page. Scroll to fourth item. Factual, sure, but very vague, loaded with words such as “reasonable” and “minimal”: [QUOTE=US Gov’t, Kings of Vagueness] The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee’s religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer’s business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion. Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/29 "2014-05-02T13:45:01Z")
I know of one case where someone in the military asked for Halloween off because they were Wiccan. His commander said he could have it but that he’d have to work on Christmas. At that point being off on Halloween became less important. Not sure how serious the question and response really were. ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/30 "2014-05-02T13:50:57Z")
I have an example. I have Friday & Saturday off, because I observe the Sabbath. My employer wanted my to have the same schedule as my supervisor. so they switched me to a day supervisor who had the same schedule as me. To me this is a good way for an employer to weed out people who are really serious about their beliefs, rather than someone who is just angling to get time off. I hate getting up that early, but I deal, because they did make “reasonable accommodation” for me. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/31 "2014-05-02T13:52:45Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Factual, sure, but very vague, loaded with words such as “reasonable” and “minimal”: Can I ask you, out of genuine curiosity: do you reckon you can do better than the thousands and thousands of very smart people who have touched this issue before you got to it, and the millions of words that have been published defining these terms? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/32 "2014-05-02T13:56:56Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > My “two days in September” example was referencing the Jewish High Holy days (Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur). I guess that was too obscure. _cough_ three days _cough_ ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/33 "2014-05-02T14:01:07Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Can I ask you, out of genuine curiosity: do you reckon you can do better than the thousands and thousands of very smart people who have touched this issue before you got to it, and the millions of words that have been published defining these terms? Nope, not a bit. I was just responding tongue-in-cheek to someone dropping that link into the thread with a “time for some facts,” as if it were going to be bringing much clarity. 🙂 ETA: But having said that, there are other parts of Federal labor law that are far more unambigiously worded than that one. Like the FMLA, for one: “You get \_\_\_\_\_ amount of time off as long as your company has \_\_\_\_ amount of employees.” Boom. Nothing about “as long as it isn’t more than a minimal inconvenience for your boss.” ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/34 "2014-05-02T14:04:02Z")
Ha. [Well, if it’s _clarity_ you want](http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/religion.html)… I think FMLA and religious accommodations are very different things, though. And I think that probably you’d be surprised by how annoyingly nitpicky FMLA questions can get. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/35 "2014-05-02T14:04:56Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Ha. [Well, if it’s _clarity_ you want](http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/religion.html)… Wow. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/36 "2014-05-02T14:16:13Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > _cough_ three days _cough_ I’m lucky if I can fit two days into my schedule. I figure if one day for RH is good enough for Jerusalem, it’s good enough for me! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/37 "2014-05-02T14:47:34Z")
There can be different definitions of “reasonable” depending on the situation, I guess. To get an annoyingly Evangelical Chaplain/Major off my back, I challenged him to get me Kosher c-rations. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/38 "2014-05-02T15:02:24Z")
Is there not such a thing as kosher c-rats (or MREs, now, I guess)? I’m a bit surprised by that. It seems to me that you could make a vegetarian option that would be compliant with almost all religious dietary restrictions, fairly easily. Might be disappointing if you were a Jew who liked meat, but it would be a reasonable accommodation. ---
**Author:** ![TexanCountryboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6f9a4e/32.png) [@TexanCountryboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexanCountryboy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/39 "2014-05-02T19:18:40Z")
I agree, the “reasonable accommodations” and “minimal burden” is very vague. I simply used the Sabbath as an example. I was not trying to exclude other faiths or say Judaism is superior in any way (i’m Lutheran, myself). I only used the Sabbath because I figured it was one of the most common days requested off. I was also gonna include Sunday, but since most churches have Morning and Evening services, I figured it would be to easy to work around… ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413/40 "2014-05-02T19:19:24Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > Factual, sure, but very vague, loaded with words such as “reasonable” and “minimal”: The rule is; “A fundamental canon of statutory construction is that, unless otherwise defined, words will be interpreted as taking their ordinary, contemporary, common meaning.” I checked the so termed “Dictionary Act” and there are definitions, but not of “reasonable”, therefore a competent Jurist must find a bag of cases to determine how other courts rule on the “dictionary” meaning and the ruling may be a matter of a personal discretion also. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-off-for-religious-reasons/687413.md?page=3)