# Take that libs! Conservatives more generous to charities! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928 "2006-11-18T07:32:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/121 "2006-11-19T04:16:10Z")
I don’t know if his statement is even supportable; the term “super-rich” is particularly vague. But it’s not nearly as stupid as you tried to say it was. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/122 "2006-11-19T04:25:08Z")
It’s irrelevant anyway. The statement that most X lives in Y is not equivalent to a statement that “Y is populated by X.”] ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/123 "2006-11-19T04:34:24Z")
Well, a majority of the [Forbes 400 Richest Americans of 2004](http://www.forbes.com/2004/09/22/rl04land.html) seem to live in California, New York, and the other Northeastern states. I don’t know what percentage of them are Republicans, though. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/124 "2006-11-19T04:40:39Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] A super-rich Republican is the Mayor of New York City. I’m guessing he’s not the only one in town. 😉 [/QUOTE] That super rich mayor happens to be so liberal that he could be a Democrat in almost any other place. In fact, Bloomberg seems mostly to have run as a Republican purely for reasons of primary convenience. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/125 "2006-11-19T04:49:16Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Why did we take that detour into Massachusetts? [/QUOTE] We should have taken the left turn at Albeqwer…Albeqirk…New Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/126 "2006-11-19T05:16:55Z")
My own experience leads me to call BS on what is being reported as the conclusion of that book. I worked for two years in a position in which it was customary that I recieve tips. At this job, I was also in a position to see the back of the car of each customer I served. With reliability bordering on perfect predictability, if there was a mark of christianity on the back of the vehicle, I knew I was not going to be recieving a tip from them. If this is true, then it’s difficult for me to believe a set of statistics which characterizes conservative christians as more charitable or giving than others. This was disappointing to me especially in light of my own profession of the Christian faith (though I’m not conservative). I was embarrassed. Well, that’s just my experience so it’s not compelling to anyone else. But still… -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/127 "2006-11-19T05:24:16Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] With reliability bordering on perfect predictability, if there was a mark of christianity on the back of the vehicle, I knew I was not going to be recieving a tip from them. [/QUOTE] Gives new meaning to the phrase “the mark of the beast”, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/128 "2006-11-19T05:36:48Z")
I should clarify something: I’m not saying all christians are uncharitable, nor am I saying all conservative christians are uncharitable. What I am claiming is that the particular kind of christian (who in my experience is always on the conservative side of the aisle) who puts christian bumper stickers or little fishies on his or her car, for some reason, tends with great regularity to be the kind of person who does not think to tip under a particular circumstance in which most people do find it appropriate to tip. (To be specific: I was a driver of a shuttle bus to and from an airport parking lot.) -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/129 "2006-11-19T06:29:16Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Why did we take that detour into Massachusetts? [/QUOTE] Because \*\*Carol \*\* has no brain. You could argue with her all day about why 1 + 1 = 2 and end up with a 5 page hijack and her still trying to claim it’s 11. At some point somebody NOT HELPING AT ALL would feel compelled to mention that in some non-decimal base system it does equal 11, and Carol would say “AHA!” That’s essentially what happened here. Anyway we’ve long since left the original statistical argument which caused me to bring up the super-rich in the first place. Carol’s complaints were completely unrelated - they weren’t even in the same galaxy as what I was talking about. Not that anybody had a chance to even read that post - it was immediately buried by a page of Carol’s Stream of Bullshit. I’m a she by the way. For beech, read “bitch.” The mods put the ixnay on uglybtch years ago, and don’t think I’m still not bitter about it. [QUOTE=Diogenes] It’s irrelevant anyway. The statement that most X lives in Y is not equivalent to a statement that “Y is populated by X.” [/QUOTE] Thanks, yes. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/130 "2006-11-19T06:41:21Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] A. The Northeast has the bulk of the super-rich B. Who are by and large Republicans So, Cite? [/QUOTE] Of course. [Here’s my cite.](http://www.holgilein.de/schauda/verstrahltes/middle_finger.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/131 "2006-11-19T11:03:33Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] Top 5: 1. Mississippi 2. Arkansas 3. South Dakota 4. Oklahoma 5. Alabama Bottom 5: 46) Minnesota 47) Massachusetts 48) New Jersey 49) Rhode Island 50) New Hampshire [/QUOTE] I suspect this is a case of money going where it is needed most. More people will donate money in a place like Mississippi because more people in Mississippi are in poverty than in, say, Minnesota. Check the [ranks](http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/shr2004/Findings.html) of those same states ranked on health: Mississipi - 49th Arkansas - 46th South Dakota - 19th Oklahoma - 40th Alabama - 43rd Minnesota - 1st (yay!) Massachusetts - 6th New Jersey - 17th Rhode Island - 14th New Hampshire - 2nd With the exception of South Dakota, there is a very clear difference in the level of health between those groups of states. Compare them based on [poverty rate](http://www.dataplace.org/rankings/?cid=21725) (year 2000): Mississippi - 19.9% Arkansas - 15.8% South Dakota - 13.2% Oklahoma - 14.7% Alabama - 16.1% Minnesota - 7.9% Massachusetts - 9.3% New Jersey - 8.5% Rhode Island - 11.9% New Hampshire - 6.5% The states listed highest on the Generosity index have higher poverty rates than those listed lowest. I suspect this is simply a case of people donating money in areas where money most needs to be donated. If the poverty rate in New Hampshire is very low, then it doesn’t _need_ as many donations to charity (all else being equal) than Mississippi. (Although the smart-ass in me wants to suggest that maybe charitable giving creates poverty and reduces health. ;)) (Obviously this isn’t a sophisticated statistical analysis. I’m not pretending that it is. I do think it’s very suggestive though. I wonder if Brooks’ book mentions this or takes it into account.) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/132 "2006-11-19T16:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Ok, name three things he’s done for the good people of Massachusetts. I’ll wait. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > “U.S. House and Senate leaders late Tuesday agreed to retain, within an $82 billion spending bill, a provision that would lift the cap on the number of foreign workers allowed in the country this year under the federal government’s H-2b visa program. > > U.S. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., who first co-sponsored legislation to lift the H-2b cap last year said he was “encouraged” by Tuesday’s news. > > ‘The visas are a lifeline for small family businesses on Cape Cod and many other firms that rely overwhelmingly on seasonal workers to meet their heavy summer needs,’ Kennedy said via a written statement.” > [@](#): > > Kennedy Reintroduced the Head Start Reauthorization in the 109th Congress Senator Kennedy is a key sponsor of bipartisan legislation to reauthorize the Head Start program. The bill would increase competition for grants to ensure federal funds are used effectively, and would raise educational standards for teachers. Kennedy, concerned with a provision that would require half of all Head Start teachers to have a bachelor’s degree by 2011 without proper funding, is working on bipartisan language that would allow Head Start centers that fail to meet the teacher requirements to apply for a one-year, renewable waiver to prevent a sharp cut in funding. In addition, Kennedy is critical of a standardized test portion of the legislation left in place from the previous Head Start bill. A recent GAO report questioned the accuracy of these exams in assessing the effectiveness of certain Head Start programs. Senator Kennedy will work to see that Head Start is reauthorized in the 109th Congress. > [@](#): > > Kennedy Fought for Real Prescription Drug Relief for Seniors For over 25 years, Senator Kennedy has led the effort to provide real prescription drug relief for America’s seniors. In 2003, he worked with a bipartisan group of senators on legislation that would have created a prescription drug benefit within Medicare. Kennedy’s bill included substantial benefits for low-income seniors, catastrophic coverage assistance, and real savings for beneficiaries. In addition, the bill would have provided access to all seniors. Although Senator Kennedy’s legislation passed in the Senate, Republican leaders and the White House insisted on a proposal that benefited the large pharmaceutical companies and left Medicare seniors without little or no relief. The Republican bill barred Medicare from negotiating discounts on drug prices for beneficiaries, and included huge subsidies for HMOs and drug companies at the expense of seniors. Senator Kennedy opposed the Republican plan. [H.R.1, PL 108-173, 12/8/2003] I haven’t bothered to try to find any instances where any of his legislation, amendments, or earmarks have directly brought money and jobs into the state. I sincerely doubt that he is any less effective than any other Senator at doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/133 "2006-11-19T16:48:10Z")
[Conservatives Are Poor:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/18/AR2006111800041.html) > [@](#): > > Individuals gave $199 billion of the $260 billion that charities received last year, about 76 cents of every $1 collected, and the **bulk of it came from households with incomes of less than $100,000.** Excluding $5.83 billion in one-time donations for victims of hurricanes, earthquakes and other disasters, and adjusting for inflation, individual giving last year was stagnant, dropping 0.1 percent. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/134 "2006-11-19T22:24:40Z")
[QUOTE=uglybeech] Of course. [Here’s my cite.](http://www.holgilein.de/schauda/verstrahltes/middle_finger.jpg) [/QUOTE] Of course, you don’t have a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/135 "2006-11-19T22:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > The visas are a lifeline for small family businesses on Cape Cod and many other firms that rely overwhelmingly on seasonal workers to meet their heavy summer needs Of course, let’s make sure the needs of the wealthy Cape Coders? Cape Codians? Capers? have their “seasonal needs” met. Boy, is that important to the nation. > [@](#): > > Kennedy, concerned with a provision that would require half of all Head Start teachers to have a bachelor’s degree by 2011 without proper funding, is working on bipartisan language that would allow Head Start centers that fail to meet the teacher requirements to apply for a one-year, renewable waiver to prevent a sharp cut in funding. Um, he’s concerned with a provision requiring **half** of the Head Start teachers to have a bachelor’s degree? Shouldn’t all teachers have a bachelor’s degree, as a matter of course? Talk about dumbing down standards. As for the last item, I don’t know enough about Medicare prescription plans to form an opinion. I do think that the Senator is well outside of the American mainstream, though. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/136 "2006-11-19T23:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Of course, let’s make sure the needs of the wealthy Cape Coders? Cape Codians? Capers? have their “seasonal needs” met. Boy, is that important to the nation. [/quote] You asked about the people of Massachusetts, and he fucking answered. > [@](#): > > Um, he’s concerned with a provision requiring **half** of the Head Start teachers to have a bachelor’s degree? Shouldn’t all teachers have a bachelor’s degree, as a matter of course? Talk about dumbing down standards. Yeah, the kids in those Head Start centers would be way better off if the centers had fewer people and less funding. > [@](#): > > As for the last item, I don’t know enough about Medicare prescription plans to form an opinion. But you knew enough to suggest he hadn’t done three good things for the people in his state. How can you say he hadn’t done anything good without knowing the major issues? > [@](#): > > I do think that the Senator is well outside of the American mainstream, though. Whoop-de-shit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/137 "2006-11-19T23:10:15Z")
Ms. **Stream** , morbid curiosity impels a question: do you consider _yourself_ as part of the “mainstream”? ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/138 "2006-11-19T23:17:32Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Of course, you don’t have a cite. [/QUOTE] I would bother to investigate this issue with you if you were smarter than a retarded chimp. Or if it were even remotely related to the discussion - or even the highly tangential point that caused me to bring it up. Or if you bothered to even try and understand any part of what anybody’s posts say - including the fucking parts you fucking quote which you obviously don’t fucking read you fucking twat. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/139 "2006-11-19T23:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Of course, let’s make sure the needs of the wealthy Cape Coders? Cape Codians? Capers? have their “seasonal needs” met. Boy, is that important to the nation. Um, he’s concerned with a provision requiring **half** of the Head Start teachers to have a bachelor’s degree? Shouldn’t all teachers have a bachelor’s degree, as a matter of course? Talk about dumbing down standards. As for the last item, I don’t know enough about Medicare prescription plans to form an opinion. [/QUOTE] Speaking from ignorance does your position no good. The bill affected small family businesses on Cape Cod. Cape Cod is not the preferred residence of the wealthy (who tend to hang out on Martha’s Vinyard and Nantucket). The small family businesses (poster children for _most_ Republican campaigns) are the family businesses, catering to the tourist trade for three months a year and holding on to their finances by the skin of their teeth for nine months of the year, and the cranberry farmers who need seasonal help to bring in their harvest just as farmers anywhere do. Head Start is a pre-school program that does not necessarily need the same level of education to conduct a class as formal schooling may require. No “dumbing down” is involved in an effort to raise standards, but in a way that will not force out of business people who are currently providing a service. At least you had the decency to not flaunt your ignorance regarding Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928/140 "2006-11-20T00:04:14Z")
> [@Carol Stream](#): > > Um, he’s concerned with a provision requiring half of the Head Start teachers to have a bachelor’s degree? Shouldn’t all teachers have a bachelor’s degree, as a matter of course? Talk about dumbing down standards. Do you actually know anything about Head Start? As it happens, I’ve actually done some work with Head Start. I do have a BA but few of my colleagues did because it wasn’t really necessary. Head Start is a PRE-school program. It doesn’t involve teaching reading and arithmatic, it involves throwing nerf balls around with three-year olds. Everyone in the program did have specialized training in working with young children but there was no need for BA’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-that-libs-conservatives-more-generous-to-charities/380928.md?page=8)