Ding! There’s your three-to-five years right there. It’ll take them 18 months just to trace all the now-exposed and unconnected wires to the right signals.
That said, I think they’re pulling a Scotty here and will be done with things faster than they’re letting on.
I have nothing useful to add to this thread, other than to say that I am stealing this joke and using it at every possible opportunity. Granted, I will do so as part of my continuing efforts to be kicked completely out of polite society, but I am still stealing it. I shall build a shrine in your honor in payment (and I shall keep my Dorothy Parker books there as homage)
Thank you, dear, it’s always nice when my drive-bys don’t pass unnoticed.
Insert the word ‘probably’ between the words homeless and guy. The exact cause of the blaze is still just under investigation.
That being said – (supposedly because I can’t provide a cite it back this up) – the MTA has a Price-is-Right-type ‘come on down’ policy at certain subway stations for homeless people during excessively cold / snowy weather. I’ll lay 2-1 odds that well intentioned, (probably unwritten) but boneheaded policy ends today.
As pointed out by others, the 3-5 year estimate (longer than it took the build the E.S.B) is bureaucratic CYA-speak.
I noticed it too, and will also be using it at every opportunity. I will also be adding an additional clay figurine to my Eve altar. (If you’ve been having the sneezes lately, that’s because of that wank package of incense I got passed off. Sorry.)
My condolences if they go with Paris-based Alcatel. The Alcatel system installed a few years ago to “update” the SF Muni’s controls was a mess. The thing broke down so much that passengers would frequently pull the emergency door releases and walk through the tunnels to the next station.
Going out on a limb to guess that the Pittsburgh option is Bombardier. Wabtech is also in that area, but is more focused on air brakes, hence the name - Westinghouse Air Brake Technology.
Whoever gets the job is going to need at least a week, and probably closer to a month just to sift through the charred mess in that relay station to try and sort out where all the cables go. Then, more time to convert their notes and scribbles into clean wiring diagrams and specs for replacement equipment. Over the decades, I’m sure there’s been several undocumented repairs or modifications made in this room, making the tedious process of tracing everything out vital - “as designed” is immaterial here. They need to figure out the “as built.”
On the bright side, once it’s done, the equipment will probably occupy a third of the space as the old stuff. Insulation back then was layers and layers of gutta-percha, rubber, fabric and paper, so wires that were as big around as your thumb can be replaced by wires the size of a pencil.
Some homeless probably guy started the fire?
Bolding mine.
You said it in one sentence, but this is the single most complicated part of the signaling system.
The tracks are broken up into blocks by insulators. The signals are designed to indicate the presence or absence of a train in its control length, which is a set number of blocks past the actual signal. Control lengths always overlap to at least the next signal, which means that a single block can be a part of multiple signals’ control lengths.
Signals also need to indicate not only if there is a train in their control length or not [display red or yellow], but also if there is a train in the next signal’s control length [display yellow or green].
Add to this the concept of Grade Time and Station Time which enforce speed limits by using timers to keep a signal from clearing. The timer is either in effect all of the time because of track topology [Grade Time], or is only in effect when there is a train a certain distance ahead of them [Station Time]. There are also two different flavors of Grade Time: one-shot and two-shot.
Don’t forget automatic key-by, the myriad intricacies of the interlock at switch points, the human interface to the whole thing from the towers, and on and on.
The fact that it’s so old only makes it worse. These aren’t logical concepts playing out in a computer, but real, physical devices interacting with each other.
The signaling system is exceedingly complex and a timeframe of a couple of years to fix doesn’t surprise me at all. With that said, I still have a very low opinion of the MTA and 5 years is more than likely a bit of scaremongering.
This morning’s paper had a fairly detailed description including illustrations on how the fire started. The cause of the blaze is known; who did it is still assumed.
Website doesn’t seem to have the illustration from the paper.
As a follow-up to Servo’s excellent summary of subway signalling, there is a detailed description of the New York City Subway’s signalling system at this site.
Spending a bit of time there will show you why it is a complex process, particularly as everthing has to be designed in a fail-safe manner.
Great post Servo. I guess it would help to know which quartermile of track was rendered inoperable.
Looking at the trainmap of Chambers street doesn’t reveal anything super complicated.
http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/track/smdowntown.png
I don’t mean to belittle the damage, but I can’t see why they shouldn’t be back up and running in a year. Perhaps some of that automated technology they’ve been testing on the L train can be integrated? Btw I thought they stopped keybys after the Williamsburg bridge accident.
Only two companies in the world make train signals? Huh?
I think we should call the A-team. 
My husband’s very long commute just got longer. Whoever set the fire should be placed on the most crowded A train platform in front of a group of commuters with a sign around his neck reading “This is all my fault.”
Does anyone really believe the “mysterious homeless person” story? Everyone at my office thinks the MTA is just covering its ass.
Thank you.
And more than likely (this being New York) at least one autistic savant transit buff in very high-water black chino pants and 1970s-style serial-killer glasses frames.
All that said, it’s still a “simple” block control system used by railways all over the word (and now being superceded by other technology). I don’t believe it’s a case of having to reverse engineer to find out what the old technology did. We know what it did. All they have to do is keep trains apart. This is indeed complex technology, but it is very much known technology. Heck they could almost* buy an off-the-shelf product from another city’s subway system.
That thing’ll be back up within twelve months.
*Yes, railfans, I did say “almost”. I know it’s not quite as simple as that.
Hey, more space for homeless people to use.
I buy it. I don’t put it past the MTA to tell a whopper, but the fire department is pretty good about that kind of stuff.
I really have to advise against ever using Wabtech’s stuff. You see, Pete Puma’s pretty much in charge of the parts we make for them. :eek: :eek: :eek: