# Take the guns first... Due process second **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 1, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793 "2018-03-01T02:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/21 "2018-03-01T13:38:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > riffing on his rectal harmonica There are so many politicians I could apply that to. I think it will be my insult of choice for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/22 "2018-03-01T13:42:05Z")
\*\*Take the guns first… Due process second \*\* …and leave the cannoli. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/23 "2018-03-01T13:44:10Z")
As usual with this moron president, his idea has no relation to the reality of what is centrally known about who has guns, which is next to nothing. As far as I know, local law enforcement has no records of who own guns. If some red-flag person comes to the attention of the police, what guns are they going to go after? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/24 "2018-03-01T14:07:31Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I have a wild suggestion. Why don’t we make sane gun control laws that will close all the loopholes but leave responsible gun owners in peace? The extremists on both sides need to be ignored while the sane among us create exactly that kind of scenario. That’s just crazy talk. Ignore the extremists and hew toward rational moderation? Not the (Neoconservative) American way. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > My prediction is that Congress will refine the Manchin-Toomey gun control proposal, removing the concealed carry reciprocity poison pill and adding…Then nothing more will happen. _sigh_ Take your time machine back to the future, McFly. Meddling with the time stream is dangerous! Look at what happened with Kanye West… Stranger ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/25 "2018-03-01T14:13:46Z")
If Trump is ballsy (or dumb) enough to go through with an assault weapons ban, he will have signed his own administration’s political death warrant. My gut tells me he’s half serious about bump stocks but wants to be able to say that he was able to save the assault weapons by giving them liberals something small and insignificant to chew on for now. And in truth, the NRA would be pretty wise to accept that compromise – that actually would be a fairly impressive bit of negotiation artwork on the part of the president. In fact, if he is, as he says, able to put together some sort of executive order that convinces the public that he’s taking some kind of action on bump stocks, without actually, you know, banning bump stocks but perhaps slowing the buying time or something procedural, it would be tactically brilliant. But that’s assuming something else doesn’t come along to distract him along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/26 "2018-03-01T14:14:51Z")
If a Democratic presidential candidate uttered these exact words, you could rest assured that at least one entire day of the Republican National Convention would be devoted to that quote. The Republican party no longer stands for anything at all. Look, I get that you might be a Republican because of Reagan, or because of Bush, or because of small government, or because of traditional family values, or because of fiscal responsibility. But, if you are still a Republican who believes those things, then the party no longer represents you. Donald Trump is the embodiment of a party that hates you. Move on. I left awhile ago, and it was liberating no longer having to defend stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/27 "2018-03-01T14:27:32Z")
It was a startling meeting all the way around. Trump flatly told the Republicans that concealed carry reciprocity was dead as a part of gun safety legislation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/28 "2018-03-01T14:59:26Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > My prediction is that Congress will refine the Manchin-Toomey gun control proposal, removing the concealed carry reciprocity poison pill and adding an age limit and possible new assault weapons requirements, if not an outright ban. > > Manchin and Toomey will make an appointment to present it to the President. They will go to the meeting only to find a couple of hard core gun nut advisors and NRA reps there as well. Trump will call the bill a gun-grabbing piece of shit while personally insulting Manchin and Toomey. > > Then nothing more will happen. That’s a pretty good prediction. I would not be at all surprised if it plays out like that. We have seen this movie before. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/29 "2018-03-01T15:16:55Z")
Of course the White House will walk it back, but for the first time in forever the White House is no longer connected to what the President says or does. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Trump is demonstrating that a great many people born and raised in the USA have no clue how their government works. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/30 "2018-03-01T15:27:12Z")
IIRC during the election he’s the candidate who asserted that the 14th amendment was unconstitutional. I have no faith he knows how _anything_ works, government-wise. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/31 "2018-03-01T15:34:02Z")
his first inarguably fascist proposal ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/32 "2018-03-01T15:48:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It was a startling meeting all the way around. Trump flatly told the Republicans that concealed carry reciprocity was dead as a part of gun safety legislation. Big deal. What will he say today? What will he say tomorrow? The man does so many rollbacks I hear the White House is going to sue WalMart for copyright infringement. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/33 "2018-03-01T16:13:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > his first inarguably fascist proposal Well, for those who have been spending the last year living in a bomb shelter, perhaps… > [@Czarcasm](#): > > The man does so many rollbacks I hear the White House is going to sue WalMart for copyright infringement. Along with [opening up those libel laws](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1365/open-libel-laws/). Trump has a lot of legislative work to get on; he’d best snap to or 2020 will be here before he knows it. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/34 "2018-03-01T17:36:59Z")
My favourite bit was the way he sat back and folded his arms, in that self-satisfied, Dunning-Kruger manner he always has about him: ‘That’s right. I just said it. It came from my stable genius brain. Because I’m superSMRT!’ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/35 "2018-03-01T18:50:58Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > My prediction is that Congress will refine the Manchin-Toomey gun control proposal, removing the concealed carry reciprocity poison pill and adding an age limit and possible new assault weapons requirements, if not an outright ban. > > Manchin and Toomey will make an appointment to present it to the President. They will go to the meeting only to find a couple of hard core gun nut advisors and NRA reps there as well. Trump will call the bill a gun-grabbing piece of shit while personally insulting Manchin and Toomey. The Manchin-Toomey gun control proposal is suprisingly reasonable. I could go for that, plus raising the age for \*semi-auto centerfire \*weapons to 21. But I like the concealed carry reciprocity bill. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/36 "2018-03-01T19:30:36Z")
> [@furt](#): > > 2017: Trump is Hitler! We must resist! > 2018: Trump wants to eliminate fundamental due process rights! That’s awesome! If it makes you feel better to imagine that many of the same people are saying both of these things, feel free to imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/37 "2018-03-01T19:30:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > his first inarguably fascist proposal Several states have this law already. [Cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/us/red-flag-laws-guns.html). Including the indubitably fascist state of Indiana. I see nothing in the cited article saying that they have been ruled unconstitutional. After all, those who are arrested are detained before due process kicks in. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/38 "2018-03-01T19:32:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Manchin-Toomey gun control proposal is suprisingly reasonable. I could go for that, plus raising the age for \*semi-auto centerfire \*weapons to 21. I’ll see your 21, and raise you 100. 😃 > [@](#): > > But I like the concealed carry reciprocity bill. Good luck getting an _expansion_ of gun ‘rights’ through Congress. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/39 "2018-03-01T20:43:50Z")
This is just more knee-jerk stuff from a shallow President. Didn’t Trump say that “he would personally run into a school shooting” - how he thinks that an unarmed pensioner with no military experience is going to help is staggeringly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793/40 "2018-03-01T21:37:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Several states have this law already. [Cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/us/red-flag-laws-guns.html). Including the indubitably fascist state of Indiana. I see nothing in the cited article saying that they have been ruled unconstitutional. After all, those who are arrested are detained before due process kicks in. That’s not my reading of the article: > [@New York Times](#): > > California is one of only five states with “red flag laws” or extreme risk protection orders allowing the police to **temporarily** take away guns from people **deemed by a judge** to be dangerous, often after a family member or acquaintance raises concerns. Emphasis added. Blanket gun bans and gun confiscation laws are not fascist. Trump’s proposal is different though, as it permits the police to confiscate weaponry from some but not others without immediate threat and without judicial permission. Instead of judges or juries, discretion is put in the hands of the cop on the beat, his Sargent, and the Sargent’s boss. Only an authoritarian could like such a proposal. It has no support on Capital hill, either among Republicans or Democrats. I’d be surprised to see any legitimate gun control group endorse it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-the-guns-first-due-process-second/809793.md?page=3)