# Take you opinion, your skepticism, and your tragic excuse for reason and shove em. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187 "2009-06-09T05:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/181 "2009-06-10T19:55:09Z")
An apple a day keeps the doctor away as does a shot in the head and five in the gut. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/182 "2009-06-10T20:03:18Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > An apple a day keeps the doctor away as does a shot in the head and five in the gut. My grandmother used to say that all the time. She did have five shots a day too. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/183 "2009-06-11T00:08:57Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Over dramatize much? He didn’t abandon me while I was drowning for fuck sake. My credibility in tatters? Not with anyone who matters. > > This may be hard to wrap your mind around but the simple truth is neither he nor I give a rats ass if nameless faceless strangers on a discussion board doubt that story. It just doesn’t fucking matter. Got it? I’m not angry or frustrated because people didn’t believe me without cites. I’m annoyed and frustrated at people mistaking their uninformed opinions for reason and critical thinking. If you want to put it to rest, give the pertinent facts to someone on the Board who has a reputation for both protecting secrets and finding facts and see if they can find it, then post simply something along the lines of “yes, an event did happen in roughly the way reported.” Of course it’s also understandable if you think it’s none of anyone’s business, and there’s no foul in that. You’ll just have to let everyone run out of steam on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/184 "2009-06-11T00:35:34Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > If you want to put it to rest, give the pertinent facts to someone on the Board who has a reputation for both protecting secrets and finding facts and see if they can find it, then post simply something along the lines of “yes, an event did happen in roughly the way reported.” > > Of course it’s also understandable if you think it’s none of anyone’s business, and there’s no foul in that. You’ll just have to let everyone run out of steam on the issue. Stopping by late you probably failed to notice that’s pretty much happened. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/185 "2009-06-11T01:23:07Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Stopping by late you probably failed to notice that’s pretty much happened. Actually, I read the entire thread. Who exactly did you entrust to verify your story? I didn’t see the post. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/186 "2009-06-11T01:47:59Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > What are you talking about? You originally said that it didn’t matter if it was true or not. Now it’s just the _details_ that are in question? Two entirely different positions. > > But just for shits and grins, if occurrences _very much like_ this happen so frequently, surely it would be child’s play for you to cite a couple, yes? I think you have me confused with someone else, as my only point in this thread is to comment on the frequency that these sorts of things happen. That being that people will jump all over a poster about what are usually insignificant details and twist things around, all apparently to avoid discussing that actual topic. As for citing, nope. I am on dial up and I certainly am not going to spend a bunch of time trying to find for you an event where a criminal is injured and continues to commit crime(s) and/or injure someone and/or endanger some innocent bystander. Hell, go watch Cops and you will most likely see something like that. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/187 "2009-06-11T01:55:52Z")
A brother of a friend told me a story that I can not verify. That is the stuff that urban legends are made from. I have heard a lot of stories that start that way. They are almost never verifiable. They are almost never true. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/188 "2009-06-11T03:14:40Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > From the link up-thread,Either Ersland is right or the video is, which is more likely? This proves my point. The guy wasn’t in his right mind. He believed that he was in a major gunfight when it was only him doing the shooting. You could say he was lying, but he must have known this was all on video, so it is much more likely that this is what he believes. Personally, I think he is making it up, not because he wants to deliberately lie, but because he doesn’t remember much of what happened. You all sit back in your armchairs and think that ‘reasonable’ people will do this, or do that, but the situation wasn’t reasonable. It is much more likely that the stress of the situation caused him to blank and he was running on adrenaline the whole time with periods of tunnel vision. I can imagine that when he chased the one robber that he didn’t even see the second robber on the floor even if he looked straight at him. What could look like cold blooded murder could be a delayed reaction of ‘Holy shit, I just walked over a robber who was just shooting at me!’. Maybe he is a cold blooded murderer. But would he have been a murderer on that day at that time if it wasn’t for the actions of others deliberately trying to harm him? Probably not, so allowances should be made. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/189 "2009-06-11T03:29:24Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Actually, I read the entire thread. Who exactly did you entrust to verify your story? I didn’t see the post. I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. I meant that the thread had pretty much run out of steam. I also mentioned several times that the friend who told me the story has declined to provide further detail. That means I can’t provide more pertinent facts to some selected member. The point wasn’t whether the story was true or not for me anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/190 "2009-06-11T03:32:03Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. I meant that the thread had pretty much run out of steam. That’s cool. Understood. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/191 "2009-06-11T04:16:43Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Even if the only true things are two armed robbers come in , one is wounded not killed, and later harms employee, doesn’t that make the point? On merely your word or that of your friend , no. If you were to provide a cite…yes! Get it? My Dad always said,“Don’t believe anything you hear, some of what you read, and most of what you see.” It was his Bullshit Filter. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/192 "2009-06-11T04:30:44Z")
If **Hal Briston** or anyone else wants to take a shot at this, I have always wondered if the case was resolved. The time is approximate. The late Sixties or the Seventies I think. Two nude male bodies were found bound together in a Holiday Inn in Jackson, Tennessee. Their throats have been cut. One was a teacher at Bethel College in McKenzie, Tennessee. It is possible that the other man was also. The one known for certain to have been teaching at Bethel was a white male, probably under the age of 55. I don’t want to use his name because I don’t know if the murder was ever solved and this was a small rural area. I don’t want to draw too much attention to this post. So please don’t use his name when you get it from the clues that I give you. I believe he has the same name as the person who wrote the music to Star Wars and Schlindler’s List. But he **may** have retained the usual boyhood nickname given to male children with that first name. The man had also formerly been a high school basketball coach. The name of the Jackson paper is The Jackson Sun. The Memphis papers at that time were The Commercial Appeal and The Memphis Press-Semiter. I don’t know what he taught at Bethel. He was not married and had no children. Many people said that the two were lovers. I don’t know if that is based in fact or not. I think they were registered at the Holiday Inn. This is all of the information that I have. The man I described was white. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/193 "2009-06-11T04:51:06Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. I meant that the thread had pretty much run out of steam. . It seems to be dead, but all it takes is someone posting in it to send it back to the top of the page. Just to be on the safe side, I say we go shoot it in the stomach five times. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/194 "2009-06-11T05:57:52Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > It seems to be dead, but all it takes is someone posting in it to send it back to the top of the page. Just to be on the safe side, I say we go shoot it in the stomach five times. Lest the thread find anyone’s sisters. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/195 "2009-06-11T07:57:38Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > I liken this situation to an incident we had back in '57. Dude walks into the local bar (this was in Rutherford, NM) and tells us that he just shot Hitler for trying to steal his motorcycle. The guy is obviously wasted on peyote (still had the feathered headdress on), but we go outside to check. No Hitler, but there was Stalin. He was getting ready to rape the dude’s bike, even though he was bleeding from the hole in his lung. So we picked up our BARs and opened fire for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. > > It wasn’t until a few seconds later, when the firing stopped, that we realized our mistake. It wasn’t Stalin. No, it was worse. It was the Chupacabra. Fucker shrugged off our bullets like nerf darts and went after Injun Joe. But ol’ Joe was quick and managed to get his knife out in time, and he was an old hand at killing grizzlies in hand-to-hand combat from his time spent prospecting for alien artifacts up in the Bitterroot range in the thirties. Chupacabra ain’t got much on a grizzly, and 'fore long it gave up the fight and ran off, though without a couple of claws on one arm. Joe strung 'em up on his necklace right next to the bear claws. > > Now, I don’t take no cotton to you naysayers. Chupacabra Stalin was a motocycle rapist, even after he was shot, and regardless of what you think about chupacabra, I’ll be a boar’s teat if you can deny that the story lends credence to my point that Chupacabra was in a few off-broadway musicals. Where the fuck else would he learn to disguise himself as Stalin? So stop your pinko commie thread hijacks, lest you end up like those Chinese river pirates we fought right before the big deuce… **ivn1188** , if you’ve published any books, I want their titles, please. If you haven’t, _why the hell not?_ Get on it! Please? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/196 "2009-06-11T11:02:20Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I think you have me confused with someone else, as my only point in this thread is to comment on the frequency that these sorts of things happen. Did I confuse with the poster who said this? > [@](#): > > Who gives a freaking fart whether or not the story is true? It was used as an example fercrissakes. Because that sure looked like you. And citing an imaginary story to support a position has a fatal flaw; namely, that citing an imaginary story can be used to attack a position with equal validity, thereby rendering the tactic pointless. Surely you can see this. > [@](#): > > That being that people will jump all over a poster about what are usually insignificant details and twist things around, all apparently to avoid discussing that actual topic. If the “insignificant details” call into question whether a story is true or not, they are not really insignificant. In fact, they are crucial. > [@](#): > > As for citing, nope. I am on dial up and I certainly am not going to spend a bunch of time trying to find for you an event where a criminal is injured and continues to commit crime(s) and/or injure someone and/or endanger some innocent bystander. So A) You got nothing but bullshit, and B) you have an odd idea of what makes one thing very much like another. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/197 "2009-06-11T14:00:45Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > It seems to be dead, but all it takes is someone posting in it to send it back to the top of the page. Just to be on the safe side, I say we go shoot it in the stomach five times. 😃 good one ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/198 "2009-06-11T14:07:30Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > On merely your word or that of your friend , no. If you were to provide a cite…yes! Get it? > > My Dad always said,“Don’t believe anything you hear, some of what you read, and most of what you see.” It was his Bullshit Filter. I’ve heard a version of that and I agree. It wasn’t a cite but merely an example. They’re different. I don’t agree that if the story isn’t true the point isn’t made. Even if the story is a hypothetical which means it’s untrue and created only to illustrate a point , the simple point is clear and obvious and still true. I don’t care who believes some of it or none of it, which I’ve repeated and repeated. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/199 "2009-06-11T14:36:43Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I don’t agree that if the story isn’t true the point isn’t made. Even if the story is a hypothetical which means it’s untrue and created only to illustrate a point , the simple point is clear and obvious and still true. > > I don’t care who believes some of it or none of it, which I’ve repeated and repeated. > > Get it? Well, since you’ve bumped the thread… As a hypothetical it sucks. You would never have told that story in that thread if you wanted to offer a hypothetical. And your simple point “strange stuff happens” is fairly clear, obvious, and true but irrelevant. Your story was too far removed from the incident under discussion, and strange stuff happens from the other direction, too. “The kid shot could have been a hostage, being forced to participate.” (such as Patricia Hearst) “The ricochets could have killed a passerby” ## Both true, but so unlikely as to not matter. Just like your story. However, what I wanted to post was regarding the OP of this thread. Quoting you: \*Finally there’s the automatic complete dismissal of the story for no apparent reason Here and Here **(two cites given)** You’re cordially invited to kiss my hairy ass. I really don’t care what you believe but the arrogance and ignorance of \*\*assuming you can make an accurate judgment about that story based on such sparse information \*_shows what an opinionated asshole you are. Based on one paragraph you’ve decided it doesn’t make sense to you so it must certainly be bullshit. Rather than express doubt and ask for clarification you accuse me and/or my friend of lying. You ignorant fucks. Shove your opinion and the piss poor excuse for reason it rode in on._ Both your cites were shot down. One was not a complete dismissal, and the other said he googled your story before challenging it (as I myself did.) And for your comment about the “arrogance and ignorance” of someone assuming they could make an accurate judgment about your story based on the details you provided… well, you apparently made a judgment about the accuracy of the story based on an account by a friend of a facebook friend. (Although maybe you later amended that to the brother of a personal acquaintance…? I don’t remember.) Apparently you didn’t even learn what city it happened in before you made your judgment that it was true. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/200 "2009-06-11T14:57:04Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Just to be on the safe side, I say we go shoot it in the stomach five times. Even then, it could come back as a zombie. In fact, any thread could come back as a zombie thread, so I suggest that the moderators lock every thread after the initial post, just to be sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=11)