# Take you opinion, your skepticism, and your tragic excuse for reason and shove em. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187 "2009-06-09T05:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/21 "2009-06-09T08:37:59Z")
> [@](#): > > **Kobal2** : Clearer? Yes. Your sarcasm was wasted on me at 3:15 a.m. Right up the part of my hair. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/22 "2009-06-09T10:16:40Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I have some details of a bizarre murder which took place 35 to 40 years ago in a town of about 50,000 people. That town has a population of about 100,000 now, I think. If I shared the information now with you in PM, do you think you could locate a reference to it through Google? I’ve never been able to. Google isn’t the only place to look for information; [online newspaper archives](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_archives_online) might be helpful too. **cosmosdan** , I understand your anger and frustration .. but is it that unreasonable to suspect the story isn’t (entirely) true? If you want to ensure the privacy of your friend, maybe a mod (or a well-known, trusted member of the board) would be so kind and check the validity of the story if you provide him with more information or - preferably - a link to an article. Then he could simply confirm your story. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/23 "2009-06-09T10:31:12Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I doubt I could provide one [a cite] without a time investment I’m not willing to make. And yet you are willing to take all the time to start a fight about it on the internet, and respond to everyone who dares to disbelieve you. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > Why isn’t “maybe it’s true , maybe it isn’t, I don’t have enough details to know” a more reasonable reaction? Guess what? Your story sounds - uhmm - totally implausible and awfully convenient for an excuse to execute an unconscious robber who’d already been shot in the head by coming back and deciding to put 5(!) more rounds into him, don’t be stunned when people think you’re full of shit. Do you really think this guy was going to suddenly recover from a head wound and rape everyone in sight unless **FIVE** more bullets were immediately put into his defenseless, unconscious body? If I told you a friend of mine had been abducted by aliens, would your first reaction be to think well, “maybe it’s true, maybe it isn’t, I don’t have enough details to know?” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/24 "2009-06-09T10:42:51Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Yes. Your sarcasm was wasted on me at 3:15 a.m. Right up the part of my hair. Sorry. No worries, I get that a lot 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/25 "2009-06-09T12:42:44Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > It’s the critical mind part that really surprises me. Why is it that people would expect a violent gun related crime to follow their particular idea of logic? They don’t. You’re missing the point. The problem with the story is not so much that it sounds illogical but that it sounds made up. It has the taste of fiction. Including its manner of transmission, it has every basic element of an urban legend or a tall tale: - It’s being conveyed from a friend of a friend - Is unsupported by evidence - Features crime - Features a heroic, gunslinging protagonist - Is lurid in its details - Features a good-versus-evil storyline - Has unlikely, Hollywood-style story elements - Has a twist ending supporting a political point It just smells fishy. I don’t believe it, either, not because the criminals’ behaviour is illogical but because it just sounds phony as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/26 "2009-06-09T12:50:00Z")
I’m trying to figure out what this means – _and they opened fore with fly automatic weapons._ ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/27 "2009-06-09T13:11:02Z")
For starters, I’m with you on your main point, **cosmosdan** – if something doesn’t pass the smell test, that’s when you either say “it’s doubtful”, or take the next step in researching it. One gains no points by immediately declaring it “bullshit”. That said, I work for one of the largest news archives in the world – I can search through millions upon millions of news articles, well beyond what you can find on any given news web site. Here’s what I ran (the dollar sign is a truncation operator): \*\*howard johnson$ and (skylight or sky light) and rape$ and police \*\* It seems to me that these are the bare minimum keywords that would have to appear in this story. This search brought back one article, but it was not what we’re looking for (rather, it was an article containing news digests of dozens of unrelated stories). So, while I agree with the basis of your rant, it seems the story itself likely _is_ bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/28 "2009-06-09T13:14:05Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I’m trying to figure out what this means – _and they opened fore with fly automatic weapons._ It means the “i” key is next to the “o” key – they opened _fire_. And I guess the weapons were pretty fly. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/29 "2009-06-09T13:21:18Z")
“they opened fire with fully automatic weapons” The level at which you need evidence to support your claim is proportional to the outrageousness of the claim. This is not a story that is believable on its face. It has the smell of bad movie writing, where people don’t act like people actually act. Where guys with fully automatic weapons break into a Howard Johnsons through a skylight and, after getting wounded in a gunfight, stick around to rape two women instead of running away. You don’t get to tell that story, and expect people to put even the slightest stock into it’s truth, unless you can provide at least one factual detail to support it. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/30 "2009-06-09T13:43:08Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > It was years ago so headlines are unlikely. My goodness, is your friend older than Gutenberg? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/31 "2009-06-09T14:14:07Z")
The part of the story I find most bizarre is the idea of burglars breaking into a HoJo after hours _with fully automatic weapons_. Talk about overkill. What were they expecting to find, HoJo paramilitary forces guarding the tills? I can believe that once upon a time someone broke into a HoJo’s through a skylight. However I doubt that the full story would have made a good star vehicle for George Clooney and Brad Pitt. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/32 "2009-06-09T14:18:19Z")
\*\* cosomodan\*\* your story is either your lies or lies you were stupid enough to believe. Even if your story is true what fucking relevance does it have to that thread? A teenager laying unconscious in a pool of his own blood, that you can easily shoot if he moves, poses no threat of raping your sisters or any reasonable threat really. That he could magically regain consciousness and rape the murder’s family is beyond stupid. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/33 "2009-06-09T14:32:29Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > The story was only shared to make a relevant point in the other thread and the point is made whether the story is 100% true or 60% true. But unless the story is verifiable it doesn’t make a relevant point at all. It’s simply anecdotal and as such worthless in real debate. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/34 "2009-06-09T14:45:41Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > - Has a twist ending supporting a political point Why else would he post the story other than to support his point? It makes no sense to do it otherwise. Would you expect random stories placed haphazardly in people’s posts for no reason what so ever (it actually might make some post more enjoyable actually;))? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/35 "2009-06-09T14:45:54Z")
Dude, your friend lied to you. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/36 "2009-06-09T14:56:20Z")
What in god’s name would someone be doing breaking into a hotel through a skylight? What did they intend on stealing? Skylights are noramlly in public areas where ther is nothing to steal (lobby, hallway). Anything of value would be in the rooms which would be locked anyways. And if you’re fully armed with automatic weapons and it’s after hours what’s wrong with the front door. The story reads more like one of those “world’s dumbest criminals” stories. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/37 "2009-06-09T14:58:02Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why else would he post the story other than to support his point? It makes no sense to do it otherwise. Would you expect random stories placed haphazardly in people’s posts for no reason what so ever (it actually might make some post more enjoyable actually;))? This. I want to read this Internet. “…and that’s how I learned cats shouldn’t be covered with peanut butter. Anyway my position on death penalty is…” ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/38 "2009-06-09T14:59:16Z")
I’ve heard more absurd stories… they weren’t true either. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/39 "2009-06-09T15:01:45Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Why else would he post the story other than to support his point? It makes no sense to do it otherwise. Would you expect random stories placed haphazardly in people’s posts for no reason what so ever (it actually might make some post more enjoyable actually;))? As I said, the story doesn’t support his point because \*nobody can tell whether it’s true or not. \* ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/40 "2009-06-09T15:06:06Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > As I said, the story doesn’t support his point because _nobody can tell whether it’s true or not._ I wasn’t commenting on the story, just on one of RickJays points. My take on the story is somewhat :dubious:. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=3)