# Take you opinion, your skepticism, and your tragic excuse for reason and shove em. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187 "2009-06-09T05:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/61 "2009-06-09T18:37:47Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The point is, that story does have a chance of happening. Just as a rock hanging in mid-air rather than falling to the ground does have a chance of happening. Would you doubt gravity ? The fact that you believe that says a whole lot about you. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/62 "2009-06-09T18:39:16Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > **Cosmosdan** could have made up a much simpler story to illustrate that a BG can wreak havoc if not stopped completely. Why go to the trouble of making it so “unlikely”? Because apparently he believes that if a story is outrageous, it becomes more plausible the more outrageous it gets. [QUOTE=cosmosdan] When we’re already in a highly unlikely category in which we might expect outrageous and unlikely things to happen, why be so quick to conclude it’s all bullshit? [/QUOTE] If I win the lottery (highly unlikely) is it more or less likely that a relative would die, leaving me a large inheritance, Elizabeth Banks would bump into me at the mall and fall madly in love, and my terminal cancer go into spontaneous remission, _all on the same day_? ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/63 "2009-06-09T18:45:06Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Because apparently he believes that if a story is outrageous, it becomes more plausible the more outrageous it gets. > > If I win the lottery (highly unlikely) is it more or less likely that a relative would die, leaving me a large inheritance, Elizabeth Banks would bump into me at the mall and fall madly in love, and my terminal cancer go into spontaneous remission, _all on the same day_? He doesn’t believe that. You just want him to believe that. You can’t see that winning the lottery is more likely than all of those other things happening on the same day? There’s the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/64 "2009-06-09T18:52:59Z")
> [@Who\_me\_1](#): > > I’ve heard more absurd stories… they weren’t true either. Hell, I’ve heard _less_ absurd stores which weren’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/65 "2009-06-09T18:57:08Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > He doesn’t believe that. You just want him to believe that. OK. I don’t know if he believes it or not, but he said it. > [@](#): > > You can’t see that winning the lottery is more likely than all of those other things happening on the same day? There’s the problem. Of course I can. But winning the lottery \*and \*all of those other things happening on the same day is much less likely than winning the lottery alone. Being in a highly unlikely category doesn’t mean that other highly unlikely things suddenly become more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/66 "2009-06-09T18:58:00Z")
I have no dog in this hunt, as I haven’t read the other thread. So, I’m not basing my opinion on whether I think cosmosdan’s story is true. What cosmosdan seems to be saying is: - My story may or may not be true but that’s not the point I was making. - I only posted a short version of the story and left out some details. If you knew those details, you wouldn’t call bullshit on me. - My friend told me this story, and I completely believe him, even though I realize he could have been exaggerating because of a personality quirk. - It could be that some of the people involved in the story could have misrepresented the truth, but that’s not my fault. - I can’t verify the story because it’s too much effort, so you’ll just have to take my word for it. - You people were impolite for using such cross language with me, so you can’t challenge my sincerity. Based on this, I’m of the opinion that comsmosdan is humiliated that he got called out in a lie and is doing everything he can to divert attention from it. It’s like his pants fell and he’s berating everybody for noticing it. He makes the assumption that if he yells enough, people will realize their error in judgment and believe him. While not admitting to the lie, he’s certainly circling around it and brushing it with a very light touch, hoping that it will be enough to get the skeptics off his back. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/67 "2009-06-09T19:01:42Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > \*\* cosomodan\*\* your story is either your lies or lies you were stupid enough to believe. > > Even if your story is true what fucking relevance does it have to that thread? A teenager laying unconscious in a pool of his own blood, that you can easily shoot if he moves, poses no threat of raping your sisters or any reasonable threat really. That he could magically regain consciousness and rape the murder’s family is beyond stupid. I’ve already covered this in the other thread. You’re simultaneously assuming my story is BS based on very sparse details while claiming as factual a teenager was laying unconscious in a pool of his own blood. Can you establish that as fact? I’ve read it a lot from posters who seem to decide what is factual based on personal preference rather than evidence, but haven’t seen clear evidence. Let’s say the wounded perp was trying to get up but there was no gun in sight. Is a untrained civilian required to wait until he sees a weapon before he responds? We can’t judge a partially disabled druggist with the same guidelines as a police officer. The point was much more general and easy to understand. A wounded criminal can still be dangerous. It takes very little imagination to grasp that obvious point. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/68 "2009-06-09T19:04:01Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > OK. I don’t know if he believes it or not, but he said it. > Of course I can. But winning the lottery \*and \*all of those other things happening on the same day is much less likely than winning the lottery alone. Being in a highly unlikely category doesn’t mean that other highly unlikely things suddenly become more likely. C’mon! You were comparing winning the lottery against the other things combined. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/69 "2009-06-09T19:07:03Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Upon another posters request I asked my friend for more details. I suppose it was a mistake to tell him strangers on a discussion board thought he or I were lying. His understandable response was he just doesn’t care whether nameless faceless people on a discussion board believe and doesn’t have to prove anything. That isn’t an understandable response. In fact it’s quite bizarre coming from a friend. He leaves you with your credibility in tatters when all he has to do is give a few verifiable facts? That’s some friend you have there. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/70 "2009-06-09T19:07:19Z")
At the very least the bit about “fully automatic” gunfire is bullshit. The bad guys only have full auto weapons in the movies. Any crime involving honest-to-god SMGs would be national news, and would be cited by gun control advocates over and over and over and over and over again. But in reality, anti-control advocates repeat the “almost no crimes involve automatic weapons” point repeatedly. So either the whole story is BS, or at least that one aspect is exaggerated for effect. Either way, not adding to the story’s credibility. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/71 "2009-06-09T19:08:05Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I chose the story because it made a point relevant to the thread and it came from a source I personally trust. I repeat, the point stands even if it contains some amount of embellishment and I said so in the thread. Even if it’s a proposed scenario not based in real life the point is pretty easy to grasp so demanding a cite is irrelevant. Discuss the point. Arguing over whether it’s true or not is a hijack of that discussion. That’s why I stopped talking about it there. I’m aware of calls for cites in GD. I also know about hijacks and decided to halt one. I liken this situation to an incident we had back in '57. Dude walks into the local bar (this was in Rutherford, NM) and tells us that he just shot Hitler for trying to steal his motorcycle. The guy is obviously wasted on peyote (still had the feathered headdress on), but we go outside to check. No Hitler, but there was Stalin. He was getting ready to rape the dude’s bike, even though he was bleeding from the hole in his lung. So we picked up our BARs and opened fire for Truth, Justice, and the American Way. It wasn’t until a few seconds later, when the firing stopped, that we realized our mistake. It wasn’t Stalin. No, it was worse. It was the Chupacabra. Fucker shrugged off our bullets like nerf darts and went after Injun Joe. But ol’ Joe was quick and managed to get his knife out in time, and he was an old hand at killing grizzlies in hand-to-hand combat from his time spent prospecting for alien artifacts up in the Bitterroot range in the thirties. Chupacabra ain’t got much on a grizzly, and 'fore long it gave up the fight and ran off, though without a couple of claws on one arm. Joe strung 'em up on his necklace right next to the bear claws. Now, I don’t take no cotton to you naysayers. Chupacabra Stalin was a motocycle rapist, even after he was shot, and regardless of what you think about chupacabra, I’ll be a boar’s teat if you can deny that the story lends credence to my point that Chupacabra was in a few off-broadway musicals. Where the fuck else would he learn to disguise himself as Stalin? So stop your pinko commie thread hijacks, lest you end up like those Chinese river pirates we fought right before the big deuce… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/72 "2009-06-09T19:09:04Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > And who is the one counting posts? Heh, heh. Dipshit, it takes _one click_ on the “replies” column to know who posted and how many times. Since I’d noticed a cascade of posts by you when I read that thread, I thought it curious you’d label others as “invested” in the matter, when, as proven, you are the one whose going bonkers posting to it. To keep it simple: I was calling you on your bullshit. Capice? > [@](#): > > \*How is Ersland a proven liar? - Apparently, every time he opens his mouth. This is just his latest bullshit: > [@Ersland](#): > > \*\*…He also has given accounts of his actions that conflict with surveillance video of the shooting. > > He told an Oklahoma City TV station, KFOR, he had a gun in each hand at one point. "Yes, I had to,” he said. "They were shooting at me from both sides so I shot at them from both sides as well.” \*\* Underlining mine, _made-up bullshit all his_. Some facts about past mental problems and possible spousal abuse are also coming out: [**Mental state may play into Oklahoma pharmacist’s case**](http://newsok.com/mental-state-may-play-into-oklahoma-pharmacists-case/article/3375757?custom_click=lead_story_title) > [@](#): > > _Gun is polished and ready._ Well, yupee kayhay motherfucker!! You are all ready to drop through a skylight and punish the bad guys! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/73 "2009-06-09T19:10:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He isn’t being asked to to prove anything, he’s being asked for one or more details to support YOU. If he cares naught about supporting you, then he’s not a friend. > > However, that’s also the standard answer if the story is made up. If I needed his support in anything somewhat important I know he’d make the effort. Nameless strangers on a discussion board don’t qualify. > [@](#): > > **Zoe** , let us see if **Hal Briston** can help,clearly he has a better database. > > I did try to locate the one murder I was slightly involved with (knew the murderer, so the DA interviewed me by phone) and I got plenty of hits. It occurred around 25 years ago. That’s interesting. I assume you had sufficient details to find it. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/74 "2009-06-09T19:13:55Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > C’mon! You were comparing winning the lottery against the other things combined. Dipshit, he said “Was it more or less unlikely that all those things would happen on the same day” he won the lottery. Read for comprehension, if that’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/75 "2009-06-09T19:15:20Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Dipshit, it takes _one click_ on the “replies” column to know who posted and how many times. Since I’d noticed a cascade of posts by you when I read that thread, I thought it curious you’d label others as “invested” in the matter, when, as proven, you are the one whose going bonkers posting to it. > > To keep it simple: I was calling you on your bullshit. Capice? > > - > > Apparently, every time he opens his mouth. This is just his latest bullshit: > > \*\* Underlining mine, _made-up bullshit all his_. > > Some facts about past mental problems and possible spousal abuse are also coming out: > > [**Mental state may play into Oklahoma pharmacist’s case**](http://newsok.com/mental-state-may-play-into-oklahoma-pharmacists-case/article/3375757?custom_click=lead_story_title) > > Well, yupee kayhay motherfucker!! You are all ready to drop through a skylight and punish the bad guys! That’s _yippee_ kiyay, motherfucker. As I mentioned in the other thread, that doesn’t prove he was lying. That’s merely him recounting what he thinks happened in the heat of battle. He doesn’t have to lie about shooting first. It’s not breaking any law and it’s what you do to win a gun battle. Being hit by his own casings may have caused him to think he was grazed by a bullet. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/76 "2009-06-09T19:18:19Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > But unless the story is verifiable it doesn’t make a relevant point at all. It’s simply anecdotal and as such worthless in real debate. The simple point made is relevant even if it’s anecdotal and or an imagined scenario. I preferred to discuss the point which was relevant to the thread rather than hijack that thread with an off topic argument about whether my story was factual or not. I wasn’t giving statistical evidence or claiming my story proved anything. It’s merely an example of a point,that I happen to believe is mainly true. It doesn’t matter if others doubt it. The point made was the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/77 "2009-06-09T19:21:03Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > I have no dog in this hunt _That’s_ the story I remember! There were these dogs that parachuted into a Howard Johnson’s through a skylight! The employees had guns but chose not to use them, and the dogs ate them, plus a lot of the food! It was on _Forensic Files_. Or _Most Shocking_. Or maybe a FOAF told me, I forget. Something that weird is _bound_ to be the truth. No one would make that stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/78 "2009-06-09T19:21:17Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Dipshit, he said “Was it more or less unlikely that all those things would happen on the same day” he won the lottery. Read for comprehension, if that’s possible. Here’s what he said: If I win the lottery (highly unlikely) is it more or less likely that a relative would die, leaving me a large inheritance, Elizabeth Banks would bump into me at the mall and fall madly in love, and my terminal cancer go into spontaneous remission, all on the same day? More or less likely implies comparing two different scenarios. **Contrapuntal** already agreed to my catch and restated what he meant. Sheesh wasted your free education huh, moron? ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/79 "2009-06-09T19:22:52Z")
Don’t worry everyone, I can solve this deadlock lickety-split. You see, just the other day I was talking to my cousin, and he got to telling me about a friend of his who works at a puppy store. Now, this friend was at the puppy store one day, and a puppynapper broke in through the ventilation shafts (which were in turn connected to the sewer system, through a particularly unique happenstance we won’t go into here). The puppynapper had a bazooka, and demanded that all the puppies in the store be put into his magic bag, where they would be whisked away to the Land of Killstonia, there to endure a lifetime of hardship and toil at the hands of the puppynapper’s employers, a sentient race of lintballs known only as The Collective. Now, my cousin’s friend wasn’t about to take this sitting down, so he stood up from his stool and proceeded to shoot the puppynapper in the knees with an experimental ray gun he was building (he’s an inventor as well, he is). His lower legs obliterated, the puppynapper fell to the floor, crying in pain. Now, here’s where things get relevant. My cousin’s friend was going to go in for the kill, but pity stayed his hand. And a good thing it did, because guess what! The shock of hitting the floor was just enough to dislodge the Controller Chip from the puppynapper’s brain, freeing him from The Collective’s control, and allowing him to leave his puppynapping ways behind him. He stood up as best as he could on his crippled, shinless stubs, shook my cousin’s friend’s hand and thanked him profusely. Then he pulled an infinite amount of hamburgers from his Magic Sack, and they dined as unto the kings of old. And that’s my story. My cousin’s pretty trustworthy, so I think it should easily enter into the discourse as proof of why NOT finishing off an injured robber is the best tact. And, really, does it even matter that it’s true? In today’s helter-skelter modern world, what really matters is that it COULD have happened. Also, you can’t look it up on Google, because it happened in the People’s Republic of the Congo. In 1860. There. You see? I have matched **cosmodan** , plausible anecdote for plausible anecdote. The two opposing points can now cancel out, and the debate can be carried on on more relevant, fact-based terms. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/80 "2009-06-09T19:23:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m particularly amused at how **cosmosdan** just assumed that I called bullshit without even trying to google it myself before posting. 😛 Care to show how you established I assumed that? I didn’t. This is one more example of you reaching bogus conclusions with insufficient evidence. That’s the kind of faulty reasoning I’m talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=5)