# Take you opinion, your skepticism, and your tragic excuse for reason and shove em. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2009, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187 "2009-06-09T05:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/121 "2009-06-09T20:54:20Z")
What would be great is if Drain Bead’s exact time of birth turned out to be at 11:59 on December 31st. Also, thanks **Bosstone** and **woodstockybird**. It should also be noted that **ivn1188** got the same idea through before me, and his story involved Chupacabra Stalin and motorcycle rape, so it might be a winner. ( **Dag Otto** , what was the obvious joke? “Rectum, damn near killed 'em?”) ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/122 "2009-06-09T20:58:09Z")
1860’s style "Dea… No, I’m not going to say it. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/123 "2009-06-09T21:06:17Z")
[quote=“Drain\_Bead, post:114, topic:499187”] > [@DrDeth](#): > > Okay. So I have been trying to find a story from years ago on Google and have failed miserably. It was a party boat capsizing in the ocean off of Rio de Janeiro on New Year’s Eve in which a famous Brazilian actress, among dozens of others, was killed. This happened when I was 10 years old, I think, so I guess in 1988. Can’t find a word of it. I try to find it because I was supposed to be on that boat, but when we got to the harbor it was too full and we decided to go on another one. > > Do you not believe me just because I can’t find a link? Not necessarily, no. Mainly because your story sounds plausible, but also because I have no idea how much of the archive your average Brazilian paper has put online. If you said it had happened 10 years ago, after most papers had online editions, and it wasn’t showing up, I’d be more skeptical. Ditto if you had a bunch of details that sounded ridiculous and implausible, like saying the boat capsized because it was attacked by the Kracken after being taken over by drunken chimpanzee pirates. But the story the OP tells…well, my only comment originally was that I didn’t know Bruce Willis had a brother. It sounds like an action movie, and it makes about as much sense. Why would anybody come into a HoJo with automatic weapons? If you had automatic weapons, why not just come in through the door instead of bothering with the sky light? If you’re that armed, why not just shoot the girls instead of tying them up? What on Og’s green earth would possess someone to bring a handgun to work at a HoJo? If the robber was able to get up and around, why wouldn’t he try to conceal himself or escape once the plan went awry? How likely is a guy with a gunshot wound to be able to get it up and rape somebody, anyway? It not only sounds like an action movie, it sounds like a really _stupid_ action movie, the type that leaves people talking about how you could drive a semi through the plot holes. So you have a story that sounds utterly, utterly implausible. And it’s the sort of thing that would have garnered fairly intense media coverage at the time because it’s such a splashy story. No, not every armed robbery gets the front-page treatment. But an armed robbery where an employee shoots back and two women get raped and the employee gets fired for having a gun…yeah, that gets the front-page treatment. Pretty much anywhere. For this not only not to show up on Google but not to show up in a specific newspaper archive search is pretty damned unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/124 "2009-06-09T21:21:54Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > It not only sounds like an action movie, it sounds like a really _stupid_ action movie, the type that leaves people talking about how you could drive a semi through the plot holes. You forgot the best part. Older brother regrets not taking out the perps when he had a chance since they went on to rape the girls. Just like when Peter Parker didn’t stop the perp and regretted it later since the perp went outside and killed poor old Uncle Ben. Nooooooooo!!! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/125 "2009-06-09T23:14:02Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > If I needed his support in anything somewhat important I know he’d make the effort. Nameless strangers on a discussion board don’t qualify. > > That’s interesting. I assume you had sufficient details to find it. Yes, _like the city it occurred in_. From my Google searches, nothing like your friends little story has occurred. If you didn;t think nameless strangers on a discussion board meant anything, you wouldn’t have posted this PIT thread. So, that dog don’t hunt. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/126 "2009-06-09T23:24:26Z")
I have a scenario that might satisfy everyone. **Cosmosdan** isn’t lying. His Facebook friend isn’t lying. And the incident never happened. Older brother comes home from HoJo’s. He’s been fired for slapping the ass of the 14th-floor maid one too many times, but if he admits that, mom and dad will kick him out of the basement. So instead of telling the truth, he makes up the cockamamie story about the rappelling-with-automatic-weapons villains who, shot and wounded and pursued by police, take the time to stop and commit two rapes. His family–a family that owns one of those dictionaries without the word “gullible” in it–buys his story, and older brother gets to keep his basement bedroom. How does that sound? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/127 "2009-06-09T23:42:35Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Just like when Peter Parker didn’t stop the perp and regretted it later since the perp went outside and killed poor old Uncle Ben. > Nooooooooo!!! That’s suck-ass _movie_ bullshit. The true story is that that burglar killed Ben in the house he shared with May and Peter and fuck anyone who says different. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/128 "2009-06-10T00:29:28Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Again, part of my point is that since there are plenty of such stories it makes this ones dismissal harder to understand rather than easier. I haven’t read the GD thread, so I apologize if you have already done this, but let me suggest that if you were trying to include an anecdote to illustrate a point, and the anecdote is in doubt, then just pick one of the many other real-life stories you mention, a real-life story that can be verified via a web search, and use that other story to illustrate the same point. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/129 "2009-06-10T00:32:28Z")
This thread is a classic example of how people in here will jump on one detail of a post and make a huge pissing deal out of it, apparently to either show how great they are or to muddy up the actual discussion. Then accusations fly, new versions of the story are made up and everyone forgets that there was supposed to be a mature discussion going on. It just amazes me every time that supposed “intelligent adults” will do this. Who gives a freaking fart whether or not the story is true? It was used as an example fercrissakes. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/130 "2009-06-10T00:36:48Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It just amazes me every time that supposed “intelligent adults” will do this. Who gives a freaking fart whether or not the story is true? It was used as an example fercrissakes. Well, if it’s not true, it’s not much use as an example, is it, considering that a counter example proving the opposite point would be trivially easy to construct. And down the rabbit hole we go. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/131 "2009-06-10T00:37:32Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > This thread is a classic example of how people in here will jump on one detail of a post and make a huge pissing deal out of it, apparently to either show how great they are or to muddy up the actual discussion. Then accusations fly, new versions of the story are made up and everyone forgets that there was supposed to be a mature discussion going on. > > It just amazes me every time that supposed “intelligent adults” will do this. Who gives a freaking fart whether or not the story is true? It was used as an example fercrissakes. Yeah, and the Tawana Brawley story wasn’t true, either - who cares? It was used to illustrate the fact that there are racists in America. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/132 "2009-06-10T00:46:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Maybe they were tommy guns and it was a really old Howard Johnson’s. Well, there IS that movie coming out about John Dillinger… ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/133 "2009-06-10T01:16:29Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Well, if it’s not true, it’s not much use as an example, is it, considering that a counter example proving the opposite point would be trivially easy to construct. And down the rabbit hole we go. If you any older than 12 and/or haven’t lived in a hole all your life you know that a story very much like this one happens at _least_ once a year in every major city. What do the details matter? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/134 "2009-06-10T01:39:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I have a scenario that might satisfy everyone. **Cosmosdan** isn’t lying. His Facebook friend isn’t lying. And the incident never happened. > > Older brother comes home from HoJo’s. He’s been fired for slapping the ass of the 14th-floor maid one too many times, but if he admits that, mom and dad will kick him out of the basement. So instead of telling the truth, he makes up the cockamamie story about the rappelling-with-automatic-weapons villains who, shot and wounded and pursued by police, take the time to stop and commit two rapes. His family–a family that owns one of those dictionaries without the word “gullible” in it–buys his story, and older brother gets to keep his basement bedroom. > > How does that sound? In fairness to **cosmosdan** , he never said anything about them rappelling down from the ceiling. He said they got in through a skylight, and tied up a couple of female employees. Which, if the story has any grain of truth to it, probably means the skylight was in an employee’s only sort of area, with jibes with his statement that they were in a locker room. As others have pointed out, they almost certainly didn’t have automatic weapons, but lots of people don’t know the difference between automatic and semi-automatic, so that’s not a big deal, credibility-wise: even major media outlets screw that up all the time. The only part here that seriously stretches credibility is the criminal, after being shot, and knowing that not only is there an armed employee on the premises, but that the cops are en route, taking the time to rape two women, instead of booking out a fire exit, or back up through the skylight. On the other hand, two armed criminals breaking into a place of business via a skylight, raping two employees, and _then_ being driven off by a third, armed employee isn’t all that implausible. And if “rape” is an exaggeration - say, maybe they tied the girls up and pawed at their boobs, but didn’t actually have sex with them - then the story is not really that remarkable, as far as serious crimes go. And it’s easy to see how the story got exaggerated and mixed-up as it was retold from the guy who was there, to the brother, to **cosmosdan** into the highly unlikely sounding anecdote he posted, with no actual intent to deceive at any point along the story’s evolution. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/135 "2009-06-10T02:22:12Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > That isn’t an understandable response. In fact it’s quite bizarre coming from a friend. He leaves you with your credibility in tatters when all he has to do is give a few verifiable facts? > > That’s some friend you have there. Over dramatize much? He didn’t abandon me while I was drowning for fuck sake. My credibility in tatters? Not with anyone who matters. This may be hard to wrap your mind around but the simple truth is neither he nor I give a rats ass if nameless faceless strangers on a discussion board doubt that story. It just doesn’t fucking matter. Got it? I’m not angry or frustrated because people didn’t believe me without cites. I’m annoyed and frustrated at people mistaking their uninformed opinions for reason and critical thinking. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/136 "2009-06-10T02:40:10Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Well, sure, everyone has. However, you don’t believe absurd stories until someone offers up evidence that they are true. You also don’t use absurd FOAF stories to back up your side of a debate, unless you’re prepared to defend it with evidence. > > This is the kind of story you tell at a bar, where nobody cares about, or expects evidence. The point wasn’t the exact truthfulness and accuracy of every detail of that story. It only mattered in relation to the thread topic. Getting into a battle over how truthful and accurate my story is would be a total hijack of the thread and irrelevant to the point. I appreciate your bar story analogy. That means you can probably understand my friends and my reaction to the most vocal doubters calling for evidence. If you told a true but fairly incredible story in a bar and some stranger who you have nothing invested in and don’t care about basically calls you a liar what might your reaction be? You don’t give a shit if he believes or not right? some folks are thinking because it was in GD I am somehow compelled to search for and provide cites. IMO because the story was incidental rather than statistical it doesn’t matter if it’s true in order for the point I was making to be true and relevant. Add to that that I was and am somewhat mystified by the degree of dismissal and the real lack of reasonable thinking. IMO reasonable thinking tells you you don’t have enough details to make an accurate judgment call. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/137 "2009-06-10T02:44:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He isn’t being asked to to prove anything, he’s being asked for one or more details to support YOU. If he cares naught about supporting you, then he’s not a friend. Wrong. He has no reason to care about providing evidence or details for a bunch of strangers on a board and he knows I don’t either. I don’t need to ask for his support because he’s enough of a friend that I believe him without demanding proof. What you choose to believe is irrelevant to our friendship. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/138 "2009-06-10T03:32:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Allow me to illustrate : > > - we do know government black ops happen. What are the chances that any event is a government black ops ? Fairly small, right ? > - How about a subset of that. Government black ops directed against the government’s citizenry. Very damned unlikely, isn’t it ? Although we know it does happen. > - When we’re already in a highly unlikely category in which we might expect outrageous and unlikely things to happen, why be so quick to conclude “The CIA did 9/11” is all bullshit ? > > The point is, that story does have a chance of happening. Just as a rock hanging in mid-air rather than falling to the ground does have a chance of happening. Would you doubt gravity ? You drove your analogy over the edge with that one. > [@](#): > > Bottomline is, at the end of the day the onus is on _you_ to make a choice : either it doesn’t matter whether the story is factual or not, and you start with “consider this hypothetical…”, or the veracity of it does matter and, again, the onus is on you to produce even token evidence. There’s another choice. I think it’s mostly true and it doesn’t matter if others do or not. If you choose to doubt it I’m okay with that and understand. Just don’t be a dick about it. > [@](#): > > Well, lots of people knew Madoff as a person. I’m just sayin’ :D. There’s a way, way higher probability that your friend bullshitted you than the story being true. Occam’s Razor tells me I should base my reasoning on the most probable explanation. Again, trying to apply the rules of logic and the limits of your own experience to an extraordinary circumstance such as civilians and criminals shooting at each other and how they should behave, especially with very limited details, strikes me as naive and a bit stupid. Applying Occums razor makes it clearly so. IMHO. Why would you expect people to behave reasonably and rationally in a hyper agitated dangerous situation? What the hell is logical about expecting that? > [@](#): > > Which, admitedly, doesn’t mean it allows me to consider the alternative as definitely untrue. But I fail to see the \*practical \*difference between the two positions. I know you do. The problem is that you can’t see the how very sparse information limits reasonable judgment so you mistakenly think your judgment is reasonable. It isn’t. > [@](#): > > So you’re prepared to believe in alien abductions ? Lizard people ? The Illuminati and/or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion ? Scientology ? Biker mice from Mars ? The possibility that Dan Brown is really a talented writer cunningly hiding behind awful, awful prose ? I presume not, because I presume you’re not a loon. Which might seem naive of me on the net and all, but I consider it common courtesy. All I ask is that you extend that same courtesy to me. Okay. I don’t think you’re a loon. > [@](#): > > It’s one thing to allow for the possibility of the nonsensical, and another to consider all possibilities as equally valid. Never asked that of anyone. It;'s the illogic of declaring extraordinary events in an already extraordinary category to be highly unlikely with out sufficient details. > [@](#): > > Then just call it a hypothetical, and be done with the hijacking once and for all - then we can all argue on your point on the merit, rather than having to deal with the factuality of the hypothetical as a factor. The added bonus of it is, you don’t even have to keep your hypothetical in the tabloid section of the news stand to make us consider it in our thought process. I don’t think it is a hypothetical but I certainly don’t mind if others do. I wanted to discuss the point rather than the story itself but other posters got pissy and here I am. > [@](#): > > And I think that particular debate is done for all intensive porpoises. All relevant points have been made cogently and convincingly on both sides, all participants have made up their mind by now, or have enough material to make up their own mind, and it’s doubtful the Snopes hypothetical is going to win over a swing poster/lurker, y’know ? But then, stranger things happen at sea 😉 I’ve lost interest in both threads. I just wanted to vent and I’ve done that. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/139 "2009-06-10T03:55:39Z")
[QUOTE] > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You established pretty well what you thought of my calling bullshit on your bullshit story in the OP and in your reply to my first post in this thread when you said > And in the thread about Mr. Ersland you went off: > I did google for the story with the details **you** provided, and there’s nothing. Zero. Zilch. But you didn’t give me the benefit of the doubt that I tried to find a verifiable source, you just started calling me illogical and unreasonable, then you jaunted off to the Pit, where you continued to froth at the mouth. And those quotes prove nothing about the assumption you claimed I made. You’re wrong again. Don’t you get tired of that? What I criticized you and others for is faulty reasoning you smugly pass off as logic . So you did a google based on few specifics and found nothing. So what? Rather than telling me about your efforts and your doubts your reaction was this pleasant choice of words. > [@](#): > > So is your bullshit fantasy story. followed in this thread by > [@](#): > > Provide a cite or shut the fuck up. Don’t whine because I got sick of your shit and you got what you gave. There was no benefit of the doubt to give you. I’m not the least bit surprised that one violent crime from years ago out of literally thousands isn’t on the web. Your comment about it not being in the news was stupid bullshit and I called it as I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187/140 "2009-06-10T04:00:55Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > * * * > > I’m sorry that your friend is unwilling to provide a city and and approximate year of the occurrence. Maybe he doesn’t want people on an internet board knowing his brother’s name (from the articles about the crime.) I can understand that, because while someone might be brave enough to stand up to multiple criminals with fully automatic weapons, they might not like publicity. > > “The spirits will not manifest themselves, because they sense your skepticism. Mr. Houdini” It’s much simpler. He just doesn’t care whether you believe it or not. Neither do I. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-you-opinion-your-skepticism-and-your-tragic-excuse-for-reason-and-shove-em/499187.md?page=8)