# Take Your Virginity and Shove It Up Your Ass! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302 "2003-01-22T22:27:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/301 "2003-01-26T04:39:08Z")
Look, for the record, there’s a simple, easy, foolproof method of telling if a woman has had an orgasm during sex – she will without fail offer to refund your money. ---
**Author:** ![Super\_Gnat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Super\_Gnat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Super_Gnat)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/302 "2003-01-26T05:00:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FranticMad \* > \*\*Considering that there are no believable examples of sane people abstaining from sex (saints excluded), your statement is not credible. \*\* I’m a virgin by choice. No anal, no oral, no heavy petting (or light petting, for that matter). There’s a lady at my church who was first kissed by her husband at the altar. My church’s assistant pastor is a 32 year old virgin (male) who has never gone beyond kissing. I am offended by the fact that you automatically assume that I’m lying. ---
**Author:** ![NaSultainne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@NaSultainne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NaSultainne)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/303 "2003-01-26T05:16:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > Yes, _heavy petting can result in an STD_. And just for the record - yes, I DO consider oral-genital contact to be sex. So is hand-genital contact. And if girlfriend has warts on her hand and gives boyfriend a “handjob” boyfriend might find interesting things growing “down there”. > > For that matter - it is possible to get _pregnant_ during heavy petting - if the little sperms can travel up several inches of female reproductive organs then a layer or two of clothing is not an insurmountable obstacle. Not quite on the level of “catching” pregnancy from a dirty toilet seat, but it has happened. Well, we seem to agree that sex covers a whole lot more territory than strictly intercourse. That’s a start. Your point here that heavy petting can result in transmission of STD’s or, rarely, pregnancy, is not exactly a brainstorm, however. There are _no, none, zero_ absolutes in life regarding sexual contact and the risks associated with it. I’m not claiming virgins are exempt from the normal risks of interaction with others, nor do I believe you’re claiming that virgins have no lesser risks of pregnancy/STD infection than that of a sexually active person. The exception does in fact prove the rule. > [@](#): > > No, I didn’t miss the fact that there are some things virgins have to worry about much less than non-virgins. But I guess it totally blew by YOU that in some cases the woman is not to blame for loss of viriginity - unless, of course, you feel that sexually abused children seduced their adult molesters, or that rape victims were “asking for it”. Unfortunately, those two sceanarios are all too common in this world. **Never** in this world would I ever blame a rape victim, an incest victim, or a child of any age for sexual abuse. Kindly stop making obsence accusations. FWIW, as I don’t consider sexual assault of anyone to be “sexual intercourse”, I would hardly wish to define that assault as the end of virginity. A grotesque version of adding insult to injury that would be. > [@](#): > > As I asked you in a previous post, do you consider kissing to be sexual contact? Because kissing spreads plenty of various diseases. Hmm, such that I would consider this the divining line between virginity and sexual activity? Nope. No more than dancing close together, hugging, cuddling. Sure, there’s no 1-10 scale of sexual behavior versus sexual contact, at least as I see it (YMMV), but, just in case your definition differs; I would consider sexual contact to be physical contact between two persons (let’s just keep it simple) for the purpose of sexual stimulation, ultimately, though not necessarily to the point of orgasm. > [@](#): > > Just like the abstinence folks like to mention that condoms are 100% gaurantees against HIV, I like to point out that being a virgin isn’t necessarially a bill of clean health, either. \*\* Wow. Please supply your source for that bit of info. I’ve never heard _anyone_ suggest that condoms even approach that level of protection. As those promoting teenage abstinence are concerned with the _failure rates_ of protection against pregnancy and disease from every type of birth control, your statement hardly seems logical. As to your summation that virginity falls short of guaranteeing health, I refer you above. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Guinastasia_ > > Hell, you can get herpes from kissing - cold sores anyone? You’re using the same faulty argument others are. Let’s sum it up: the most frequent mode of transmission of most STD’s, in general, is sexual contact. BUT, you argue, because one CAN contact an STD in another, less common manner, engaging in behavior with increased risks thereby carries in fact NO greater risk. Okay. Gotcha. So, one risk is just as good as another risk. You do see why this is faulty logic, don’t you? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by erislover_ > > Proportion? Out. Your comment is in response to my exasperation regarding the use of terms with varying definitions to define virginity, sexual behavior, sexual contact, etc. Thought I was just pulling it out of my, er, hat? Take a look at a few things; **Broomstick** says above; “…yes, I DO consider oral-genital contact to be sex. So is hand-genital contact.” **Diogenes the Cynic** said "I have a brother that’s a born again Christian. He used to brag about waiting until marriage, but he was also getting blow-jobs and eating pussy and **he said they didn’t count…"** (bolding mine) So, a clear discrepancy in the definition of terms. So, let’s take a look at the definitions in my 2000 Random House Webster’s College Dictionary: Virgin: a person who has never had **sexual intercourse**. Sex: 8. have sex, to engage in _sexual relations_, esp. **sexual intercourse**. **Sexual intercourse** : genital contact or coupling between individuals, esp. one involving penetration of the penis into the vagina. sexually transmitted disease: any disease characteristically transmitted by sexual contact… _sexual relations_: 1. **sexual intercourse** ; coitus 2. any sexual activity between individuals So, we have a variety of definitions, all with shaded meanings. Is _penetration_ the standard definition of virginity? Apparently even the dictionary can’t agree. So, when I rightly argued that allowing the term (virginity) to mean what any person wants it to mean is 1984’s **Newspeak** in action, I was clearly justified. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/304 "2003-01-26T05:49:24Z")
> [@](#): > > erislover wrote: > > Part of growing up is making such decisions. Including bad ones. True enough. Basically, we all have a “right” to make bad decisions. However, when anyone thinks that they have the “right” to take on an action that may result in pregnancy, they’d damned well better be capable and ready to handle the consequences of their decision on their own. All on their own. Without the financial support of their parents, or the government. Because if they expect others to help bail them out in such circumstances, these _other_ people will probably feel like they have some say over the dumb decisions. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/305 "2003-01-26T05:56:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FranticMad \* > \*\*Considering that there are no believable examples of sane people abstaining from sex (saints excluded), your statement is not credible. \*\* You might want to explain this to some Catholic priests who have taken vows of celibacy. I need to figure out if I’m unbelievable or insane. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/306 "2003-01-26T05:58:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **super gnat** > I’m a virgin by choice. No anal, no oral, no heavy petting (or light petting, for that matter). There’s a lady at my church who was first kissed by her husband at the altar. My church’s assistant pastor is a 32 year old virgin (male) who has never gone beyond kissing. I am offended by the fact that you automatically assume that I’m lying. Man, what a barrel of laughs _that_ church must be. I’ve gotta say, a 32 year old male who has never gone beyond kissing is a fucking loser in my book (either that or in the closet). ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/307 "2003-01-26T06:02:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve gotta say, a 32 year old male who has never gone beyond kissing is a fucking loser in my book (either that or in the closet). Some people live their lives strictly by a religion. I don’t consider him a loser - if he chooses to live his life that way then that is up to him. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/308 "2003-01-26T06:12:19Z")
Religion is an excuse for dorks not to get laid ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/309 "2003-01-26T06:18:31Z")
Ok, maybe that’s a little harsh, but I think it’s a silly way to live your life. Biblical proscriptions about pre-marital sex didn’t apply to men anyway, so it’s not even a sin. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/310 "2003-01-26T06:32:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Dio wrote: > Ok, maybe that’s a little harsh, but I think it’s a silly way to live your life. You just keep digging yourself in deeper, and deeper, aren’t you? Just because _you_ don’t understand why some people do this, it doesn’t mean that those who do are losers. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/311 "2003-01-26T06:39:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NaSultainne \* > \*\*So, when I rightly argued that allowing the term (virginity) to mean what any person wants it to mean is 1984’s **Newspeak** in action, I was clearly justified. \*\* Okey-dokey. It seems to me that the various things needed to be considered in a topic as broad as sexuality, one is bound to run into such problems. How people view sexuality is not found in a dictionary. Nor should it be. If people clearly state what they feel they mean, then I don’t see any reason to be upset about a shady topic, really. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/312 "2003-01-26T06:39:54Z")
Yes it does. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/313 "2003-01-26T07:00:24Z")
**Diogenese** , shut up. You are hurting the cause. There are a few different kinds of virgins in this world. Many of my friends are virgins (really!) There are a few of my friends, who simply havn’t found someone they want to be with yet. There are others who are following the path they believe to be safe and moral. Then there is my friend who comes from a very traditional religious background. She is a virgin because if anyone found out she was having sex, bad things would happen. She would very likely get kicked out of her church, and no longer be a part of the festivals and rituals that make up the religion she believes and the culture she grew up in. She may get disowned from her family. She would not inheret their wealth. She would not be able to see her little cousins or her grandparents. Her name would bring shame whenever it was mentioned. She’d lose her chance at a normal marriage, and a normal life. That sucks. It’s not cool. It’s not an attitude I want to see take hold in these parts. Progress can be reversed just as easily as it can be made. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/314 "2003-01-26T07:05:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > I’ve gotta say, a 32 year old male who has never gone beyond kissing is a fucking loser in my book (either that or in the closet). So, we’ll put you in the “Western culture favors experience” column then, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/315 "2003-01-26T07:23:58Z")
I’m not judging the women **even sven** , I’m judging the _men_. It’s completely unnatural for a male to deliberately cut himself off from all sexual activity. I think the vast majority of guys who are “saving it” really have no choice in the matter. Religion just provides a nice cover. Religion also works if the guy is not really into girls. Just because a belief is religiously based doesn’t mean it’s not stupid. The idea that a guy should never have sex unless he’s married is not an idea that I have much respect for. Only a douchebag saves it on purpose. You know, vegetarianism is a religious ideal for a lot of people too, but people don’t get their panties in a bunch when vegetarianism is belittled or ridiculed. The notion that I’m supposed to have some kind of reverence for virgins is an irritant to me. If you’re a man in your thirties and you’ve never been laid, you’re a loser. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/316 "2003-01-26T07:27:06Z")
WELL! This is certainly the most entertaining thread I’ve had the joy to read since becoming a Doper. As for my dick, the FAA requires flashing lights on it at night to warn aircraft. On a serious note, my own sexual maturation was accomplished via trysts with an older woman, a method common in other cultures, from what I’ve read. She had the decency to guide me and administer an education that no Health Class or Premarital Church session could accomplish. I’ve also known some women who stayed virgins until they were married, and were disgusted afterward when they learned how dismally their partners performed. While I’m sure some couples who are both virgins at marriage are happy to learn and become successful, satisfying lovers together, I’m betting they are in the minority. When my daughter gets a little older, and we address the old Birds and Bees topic, I’ll advise her to practice safe sex before anything else, and also to learn her own body, what rings her bell, and make sure before saying I do, that she’ll be truly happy with the guy, in and out of bed. Here’s to the life of Elizabeth Ayers, for her life held no terrors. A virgin she lived, and a virgin she died, no runs, no hits, no errors. Ahem! ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/317 "2003-01-26T07:33:20Z")
**Diogenes** , my friend, you are painting with a very large brush. > [@](#): > > It’s completely unnatural for a male to deliberately cut himself off from all sexual activity. And why might this be, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/318 "2003-01-26T07:42:52Z")
> [@](#): > > YDiogenes wrote: > ou know, vegetarianism is a religious ideal for a lot of people too, but people don’t get their panties in a bunch when vegetarianism is belittled or ridiculed. Have you been living under a rock? The threads here about vegetarianism get pretty heated. Many of us care quite a lot. We don’t want to be belittled for being vegetarianism, we want to be left alone. We want people like you to SHUT UP about our dietary choices. They are none of your business. Just because _you_ don’t understand them doesn’t mean that they are stupid. > [@](#): > > The notion that I’m supposed to have some kind of reverence for virgins is an irritant to me. No one’s asking for “reverence”, just stop assuming that people who have a different mindset, a different set of morals than you are “losers”. Stop calling people “losers” merely because you don’t understand why they do (or don’t do) certain things. > [@](#): > > If you’re a man in your thirties and you’ve never been laid, you’re a loser. Cites, please? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/319 "2003-01-26T07:47:31Z")
> [@](#): > > **Soup\_du\_jour** > And why might this be, exactly? Because men are animals whose primary objective is to reproduce. Choosing not to have sex violates their own foremost biological imperative. It’s no different than deliberately starving yourself or going without sleep. No other animal does these things because it’s stupid. Such things diminish their chances for their own survival and for the propogation of their genetic material. There’s nothing natural about it. ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302/320 "2003-01-26T07:49:18Z")
**Diogenes** : walk away from the thread. Trust me you’re not winning them over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/take-your-virginity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass/150302.md?page=17)