In my first cite, you ignore the chart, which shows 71-95% of the population isnt getting enuf Vitamin D.
And of course you confuse 'deficiency" with “not getting the RDA”. Deficiencies, other than Vit D are rather rare. But deficiency doesnt mean you are not getting enuf, they mean you are showing health related signs.
and the third cite is very clear :Vitamin D deficiency soars in the U.S., study says
New research suggests that most Americans are lacking a crucial vitamin
Indeed there is disagreement, which is very common for Human health studies.
I didn’t ignore anything. You said that Leaffan’s assertion that vitamin supplements were a waste of money and then cited 3 publications to (I assume) back up that claim. I pointed out that your cites, while pointing out that a relatively small percent of Americans do have some insufficiencies, did not endorse the taking of supplements. And the third cite, while declaring a huge vitamin D deficiency in America in it’s headline, goes on to say that the NIH does not agree.
To Leaffan’s point; if supplements are unnecessary, then taking them is a waste of money, which your cites do not falsify.
mc
"Your results are as follows. The urine cultur showed only contamination, no
infection. Her vitamin B12 was level C do not need to take anymore
supplementation of vitamin B12. You do not need any vitamin supplement. Your
iron level was a little low but has been stable over several years. You had a
colonoscopy back on 6/10/13 with recommended follow-up in 5 years. I do
recommend that you take an iron supplement, ferrous sulfate 325 mg, daily.
(Which I have told her more than one time that iron tablets bother my stomach)
Certainly it still has lots of believers, including among health care professionals. So far though no evidence that routine supplementation has any benefit whatsoever. So far though at least no identified risk of modest supplementation. Increasingly though it seems that low 25-OH vitamin D levels is a risk marker for a variety of conditions but not etiologic in them. Someone wants to take even an extra 5000 IU/day though I at this point have no problem with that. It’s … uh … day in the sun … is beginning to fade though, as lack of benefits when looked for in large studies eclipses the excitement many had.
No the body does not just break it all down. It breaks it down in at specific rates in different portions of the GI tract delivering the product at different rates and with different co-cocompounds to different locales which have different local environments from the cells lining to the bacteria co-inhabiting and more.
Simplest example is sugar. Same suger amount in a teaspoon of sugar behaves very differently as that teaspoon vs packaged along with the fiber and with that fiber structured as intact cells around it in various whole foods.
What are the other individual components of various complete foods of importance to health risks and outcomes that we have not yet identified but that we suspect are there because of how increased complete foods have outcomes that just adding more of the identified individual parts we have identified do not? Amazingly I cannot name what they are as uh they have not yet been identified. Though even naming the ones we know none of the avaialble supplements have them all.
As to consensus … hey this SD! We don’t do no stinkin’ consensus. But the medical expert members (who often do not include Dr in their SD names) are all pretty much in agreement here. For whatever you consider that worth.
Have you got a list of these fortified foods handy? Because I’ll bet I don’t eat enough of them to get enough B vitamins.
B1 is found in whole grain, enriched fortified products, bread and cereals. I don’t eat any of these.
B2 is found in milk, bread products, and fortified cereals. Nope, not for me.
B3 and B5 I’ve got covered, since they’re in meat, fish, and poultry.
B6 I’m a little light on because while I do eat organ meats I don’t eat fortified cereals or fortified soy products, and I’m a little sporadic on liver.
Fortification doesn’t affect me at all, I don’t eat enough processed foods to make a difference.
I think there are two different conversations going on in this thread. One is the insinuation that all over the counter supplements are useless and only serve to lighten your wallet and brighten your pee. That isn’t true. Even moderately healthy people develop fairly serious and specific vitamin deficiencies sometimes for various reasons that aren’t uncommon at all in their totality. It may take a doctor and blood tests to figure that out for a specific individual but they can work and certainly aren’t placebos.
The other conversation is that a given person shouldn’t just start popping vitamins like candy with the hopes of making themselves healthier because it won’t work and may introduce a small risk of harm. That is true too. Just enough is plenty for most vitamins and you won’t get any benefit from larger doses.
Those positions aren’t fundamentally at odds with one another.
Let me give you a concrete example. Long term alcoholism (hardly rare) often causes some serious vitamin deficiencies that is just as dangerous as the alcohol itself in terms of health risk. There are brain syndromes that are permanent that are caused by extreme B vitamin deficiencies induced by chronic alcoholism. Those risks can be minimized or mitigated by simple B vitamin supplements. A charity could do a whole lot of good just by giving homeless alcoholics daily doses of vitamins that only cost a few cents a piece.
The same thing is true in the 3rd world. Vitamin deficiencies are a common cause of poor health even when calorie intake is adequate but diet variation isn’t. That can also be fixed easily with cheap vitamins especially in kids and some relief organizations have done just that.
It is true that your average American Whole Foods soccer mom probably doesn’t have any diet related vitamin deficiencies but that doesn’t mean that everyone eats that way. I know doctors expect people to follow the food pyramid, get plenty of veggies and it will all work out but that simply isn’t the case for everyone. Some people have lifestyles and choices that cause them to eat like crap and they may benefit from certain supplements.
A documentary I watched a couple of weeks back did a study on vitamin B supplements.
The host had a baseline blood test and then went on a daily dose. After a month there was no noticible increase in her vitamin B level.
I can’t recall the documentary name; it was from the UK, with a female host.
That is why medicine is a complicated art. They worked great for me as confirmed by numerous tests. I don’t want to go into too many details but I can tell you that chronic B vitamin deficiencies suck because the symptoms are so bad and severe magnesium deficiencies negatively affect quality of life such as the ability to even write legibly at times. It causes muscle spasms, back pain and even minor seizures. All it took to fix that was $20 worth of over the counter supplements. The effects were very quick and noticeable even to others.
I live in New England and cannot take the short winter days to the point where I was in a therapist’s office year after year during the same time. Then I discovered vitamin D supplements and it all went away even though I wasn’t expecting it to. I even let them run out for two months this winter because I forgot about the problem and the issue started to come back. I felt like such a dumbass because an $8 bottle of Vitamin D could have prevented it.
Of course, none of this applies to anyone else. I am just using myself as an experiment with the help of doctors and I have gotten some really good results along with a whole bunch of dead ends.
BTW, that isn’t surprising if she wasn’t deficient in the first place. That is like trying to put 20 liters of gas in a 10 liter tank. All you are going to do is spill it on the ground. The human body is pretty good at getting rid of excess vitamins. That is where all the pee comments come from but they aren’t universal. Some people have real vitamin deficiencies even in 1st world countries.
Who said go crazy with the supplements? I take a single multivitamin and a calcium/magnesium combination along with an AREDS2 supplement. When people go shooting off ill considered medical advice saying all supplements do more harm than good, that’s what’s crazy. I’m saying consider your diet, look at the RDA for nutrients, and supplement as needed. Apparently around here that makes me some kind of a nut.
Yeah, and I think that was the conclusion; the body is pretty good at regulating vitamin levels, so unless you have a specific medical need for a supplement, don’t take one.
I think all of us who eat reasonably well have no supplemental requirements.
Thiamine (B1) is found in pork, legumes, seeds.
Riboflavin (B2) in eggs, green veggies, and meat.
But folate (B9) is the one with the narrow window between the typical consumption in America and potential harms: 400 is RDA (and in most multis; 1000 is considered potentially harmful). You do not eat the grains that are fortified with it, few carbs, and little highly processed crap. Folate it is pretty high in legumes, nuts, seeds, dark green veggies (such as spinach), avocado, romaine lettuce, liver, fruits and fruit juices.
Probably a fair number wouldn’t hit RDA every day in a country without folate fortification without a multi but given fortification deficiency (barring long term alcoholism or a malabsorption syndrome) is vanishingly rare in the United States.
Your diet as you describe is likely high in foods that are high in folate. Odds are pretty good that you are getting RDA plus most days. Add a multi and you may be getting to 1000 plus many days.
Note these are not megadoses of vitamins, just an extra RDA’s worth more or so each day.
Shagnasty, yup I’ll grant that a chronic severe alcoholic should take a vitamin each day and that micronutrient deficiencies are not so uncommon in many poor nations.
If either of those apply to you, especially if are an alcoholic living in a third world country and poor, then taking a multi makes great sense. It’s a start at your problems in that case anyway.
If you are a typical American, eating typical American crap, who is not a chronic severe alcoholic or with some malabsorption syndrome, you highly highly likely are getting enough micronutrients, you may have problems from your nutritional excesses, you would likely benefit from less crap and more, well let’s call it “food”, and much much more likely than not a multi aint gonna help you.
And as for the thought that “it couldn’t hurt” … well see above. Although usually it won’t.
No question that there are people on restricted nutrition plans that should take some supplement.
