# Taking a ladder up Mt. Everest **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061 "2012-06-04T18:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/1 "2012-06-04T18:17:46Z")
A goofy question that just occurred to me: I know that super-high-altitude mountain climbing is extremely dangerous and exhausting, and that such persons will attempt to carry as little as possible (I’ve heard of people cutting their toothbrushes in half to reduce the weight). That being said, you have to be a little crazy to climb the tallest mountain in the world in the first place. So, that being the case, has anyone ever brought, say, a ladder to the top of Mt. Everest and climbed it, just to be a _little_ bit higher than anyone else has ever been? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/2 "2012-06-04T18:39:20Z")
Mount Everest expeditions generally **do** use ladders, for crossing crevasses, for example. Some are semi-fixed features installed by previous expeditions, but I think Sherpa guides also set up temporary ladder crossings. So I guess there’s no reason in theory a couple of climbers couldn’t haul one of the ladders up to the summit and have one of them support it while the other climbed up a couple of steps. Bit of a pointless exercise, though, and I don’t know that anyone’s actually done it. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/3 "2012-06-04T18:42:46Z")
I don’t know the answer to your question, but ladders are generally used for several points in the climb, as you can see [here, at the Second Step](http://www.alanarnette.com/everest/everestnorthroutes.php). ---
**Author:** ![Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashley_Pomeroy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/4 "2012-06-04T18:43:21Z")
Reminds me of [this news story](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/30/everest-mountaineer-crowding-hobby-tragedy) from a few days ago. The gist is that mountaineer Ralf Dujmovitswas was about to make his final ascent on the peak, but had to turn back; and as he did so he was horrified to see a long line of people waiting to make their own ascent, even though it was unsafe. _“He spoke of encountering an “overweight French journalist – a small woman weighing around 80kg, who had used her entire supply of oxygen before she’d reached any height at all, and an American of Turkish origin who was carrying his bicycle with him because it had always been his dream to take it to the summit and insisted on fulfilling that dream at whatever cost”.”_ Doesn’t say whether the chap with the bicycle made it or not. But then again, you’re _shorter_ when you’re on a bicycle, aren’t you? 'cause you’re bending down. For all we know Ralf Dujmovits was just a moaning minnie, but the photo is striking. Presumably it would be easier to stand on the shoulders of your teammates, or make a human pyramid. Hearteningly neither Hillary or Norgay actually went to the absolute peak of the mountain - they [paused just short](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TenzingonSummit.jpg) out of respect for local customs. I keep thinking to myself, “30,000 feet, that’s not far off the service ceiling of a Spitfire, and they were freezing and had to use oxygen”. ---
**Author:** ![Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashley_Pomeroy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/5 "2012-06-04T18:58:51Z")
In fact the man with a bike was Aydin Irmak, [who did in fact make the summit](http://www.outsideonline.com/photo-galleries/outdoor-adventure/climbing/Against-All-Odds-and-Without-His-Bike.html), although he had to leave his bike behind at camp. "\*A FEW HOURS LATER, I came across a couple of climbers still clad in their 8,000-meter gear, waiting near the helipad. It turned out to be Aydin Irmak, the Turkish New Yorker who’d wanted to carry his steel bicycle to the summit. With him was his Israeli teammate, Nadev, both of them climbing with Nepalese outfitter Thamserku. Contrary to what I’d reported earlier, Irmak, who’d never climbed before, was allowed to return to the mountain but had to leave his bike downvally in Namche Bazaar. Still, he summited. According to Irmak, his Sherpa, for reasons he didn’t elaborate on, hadn’t wanted to go up, so he grabbed three oxygen bottles and went alone.\*" Aydin was 46 with no mountaineering experience, so presumably if he could carry a single-speed bike most of the way up Everest, a more well-equipped team could carry something heavier, albeit that they’d be too sensible to try. Seems to have led [a fascinating life](http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/mountaineering/everest-2012/Riding-Everest.html?page=all) and appears to have an iron will, which helps. [This man](http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0509/whats_new/helicopter_everest.html) landed a helicopter on the summit, which is cheating basically. Why can’t they rescue people with a helicopter? It’s bloody difficult, that’s why. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/6 "2012-06-04T19:24:18Z")
You could pile up some dirt blocks under your feet. But I’m pretty sure Mt. Everest is near the build limit. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/7 "2012-06-04T20:29:40Z")
> [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](#): > > Hearteningly neither Hillary or Norgay actually went to the absolute peak of the mountain - they [paused just short](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TenzingonSummit.jpg) out of respect for local customs. That’s interesting. What local custom was this? ---
**Author:** ![Guernsey\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Guernsey\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guernsey_Bob)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/8 "2012-06-04T20:59:06Z")
Two aspects to this. One is spiritual as the mountain is held as a sacred deity. Second was some respect for Tensing as he was a bit of a shorty and had been working hard…Was thinking about an emoticon at this point but having seen some other threads had better not. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/9 "2012-06-04T21:58:49Z")
> [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](#): > > Hearteningly neither Hillary or Norgay actually went to the absolute peak of the mountain - they [paused just short](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TenzingonSummit.jpg) out of respect for local customs. I keep thinking to myself, “30,000 feet, that’s not far off the service ceiling of a Spitfire, and they were freezing and had to use oxygen”. I do not think that that picture is really evidence. It looks _very_ close to the absolute top, and about as high as you could be whilst safely standing and posing for a photo. To say that that is not at the absolute peak just because his toes are not dangling over the edge looks like hair splitting. Do you have a cite for your claim? ---
**Author:** ![Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashley_Pomeroy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/10 "2012-06-05T00:12:54Z")
> [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](#): > > Hearteningly neither Hillary or Norgay actually went to the absolute peak of the mountain - they [paused just short](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:TenzingonSummit.jpg) out of respect for local customs. Are you sure you’re not conflating your limited knowledge of Hillary and Norgay’s ascent of Everest - damn good word, _conflating_ - with Joe Brown and George Band’s 1955 ascent of Kangchenjunga? Quoth [The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2011/aug/28/george-band-obituary): “_Fourteen mountains exceed the magical threshold of 8,000 metres (26,250ft), but British climbers were first to the top of just one of them – Kangchenjunga, the third-highest peak in the world. On 25 May 1955, a tall Cambridge graduate called George Band, who has died aged 82, and a short Mancunian builder called Joe Brown took the last breathless steps towards the summit. They stopped a few feet short, in deference to religious sentiment in Sikkim, where locals believed the mountain to be sacred._” Perhaps you are. You’ve made that kind of mistake before. I know this to be true. Does raise the question: did no-one’s God gave a shit about Everest, or was Hillary - being from New Zealand - just the kind of devil-may-care man who didn’t devil-may-care? ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/11 "2012-06-05T00:21:36Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I don’t know the answer to your question, but ladders are generally used for several points in the climb, as you can see [here, at the Second Step](http://www.alanarnette.com/everest/everestnorthroutes.php). Now I’m curious… The page you linked to has a bullet list of “Elevations and Times Between Camps” which lists things like “Mushroom Rock -28047’ / 8549m - 2 hours from C3” On the right side there is a similar bullet list called “Typical Climb Schedule” which breaks things down in days. But… The schedule says “Arrive at Advance Base Camp” on April 15, and “Return to Advance Base Camp” on May 28. They list April 16-May 27 as “Climbing Period (camps 2 & 3 Summit)” What takes so long? The list on the left shows climbing in hours; the list on the right speaks of over a month spent doing the climb. Are those climbing hours a farce, kind of like football time vs. clock time? Do they spend a week or two acclimating at camp 2 and 3? What gives? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/12 "2012-06-05T00:23:24Z")
> [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](#): > > They stopped a few feet short, in deference to religious sentiment in Sikkim, where locals believed the mountain to be sacred.\*" > did no-one’s God gave a shit about Everest, Sikkim is a different country than Nepal with different local traditions. (Well it was a country at the time, now its part of India but the point stands). ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/13 "2012-06-05T01:24:56Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > Now I’m curious… > > The page you linked to has a bullet list of “Elevations and Times Between Camps” which lists things like “Mushroom Rock -28047’ / 8549m - 2 hours from C3” > > On the right side there is a similar bullet list called “Typical Climb Schedule” which breaks things down in days. > > But… > > The schedule says “Arrive at Advance Base Camp” on April 15, and “Return to Advance Base Camp” on May 28. They list April 16-May 27 as “Climbing Period (camps 2 & 3 Summit)” > > What takes so long? The list on the left shows climbing in hours; the list on the right speaks of over a month spent doing the climb. > Are those climbing hours a farce, kind of like football time vs. clock time? Do they spend a week or two acclimating at camp 2 and 3? What gives? It counts climbing (hiking) to base camp, a couple of weeks of acclimatization there, then climbing to higher camps to acclimate and coming back down for rest. The times between camps is accurate, it’s just that you don’t go from base camp to the summit in one climb, unless you’re a freak who’s already acclimated and trying to set a record. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/14 "2012-06-05T01:34:05Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Sikkim is a different country than Nepal with different local traditions. (Well it was a country at the time, now its part of India but the point stands). I used to climb mountains in Sikkim, but then I took an arrow to the knee. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/15 "2012-06-05T01:43:46Z")
Don’t know about ladders, but until they touched down, the people who rode up there in a [helicopter](http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0509/whats_new/helicopter_everest.html) were higher than the peak. Which probably takes that whole “disrespect” thing to a whole new level. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/16 "2012-06-05T01:54:14Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > It counts climbing (hiking) to base camp, a couple of weeks of acclimatization there, then climbing to higher camps to acclimate and coming back down for rest. The times between camps is accurate, it’s just that you don’t go from base camp to the summit in one climb, unless you’re a freak who’s already acclimated and trying to set a record. Exactly. You typically haul gear up to the next camp, then drop back down, before going back up to spend the night. There are many acclimatization trips to prepare your body for the time spent above 24,000’. Unless you are a Sherpa with the physiology to handle it, and even then you need some acclimatization, you can’t go from thick air to the summit quickly. Supplemental will only go so far. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/17 "2012-06-05T03:00:01Z")
Just to be higher than everyone else? Passenger jets’ cruising altitude is already higher than Mt. Everest. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/18 "2012-06-05T03:27:50Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Just to be higher than everyone else? Passenger jets’ cruising altitude is already higher than Mt. Everest. That’s what I’m thinking. You can go higher than Mt. Everest today and probably get away with spending less than a hundred bucks in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/19 "2012-06-05T13:47:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That’s what I’m thinking. You can go higher than Mt. Everest today and probably get away with spending less than a hundred bucks in the process. Well, of course; I mean, even I’ve flown at 52,000 feet, and I’m not much of a traveler. But I can just see some douchebag who decides that he’s going to _stand on Earth_ at a point higher than anyone else has. Hence the question. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061/20 "2012-06-05T14:43:56Z")
Ive never climbed Mt Everest but have climbed several local high points and have done a lot of hiking and mountain climbing and the top is the top, I have never seen anyone argue about getting to the absolutely highest point possible to claim to have summited - nor that anyone in the group was ‘higher’ then any other - except in the case where some members actually did not summit, for instance if they needed crampons to continue but didn’t have them and turned back. Now Everest may be different since it is the highest point, but I don’t think such an act would mean anything to anyone except to the person and it would be taken but others as a stunt, not a accomplishment IMHO, may as well juggle some balls up there - same recognition less weight. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-a-ladder-up-mt-everest/624061.md?page=2)