# Taking Bets: Who is the 'insider' who wrote the NYT Opinion Piece? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 6, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852 "2018-09-06T01:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/121 "2018-09-07T18:31:09Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > He said the initial contact was through an intermediary, but they transitioned to dealing with the individual directly, and said they did sufficient investigation to be absolutely sure the person was who they said they were. That sort of rules out any names we’d recognize (unless he’s purposefully obfuscating by saying this). > [@](#): > > The editor also commented that they receive a ton of op-eds from government employees, and typically they are clunky and poorly argued. But this one impressed him with its clarity and emotion. Either he read a different letter than I or that’s got to be a sad lot of writers. I mean, the letter was fine and clear, but emotional? Neigh, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/122 "2018-09-07T18:33:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I mean, the letter was fine and clear, but emotional? Neigh, I say. So you’re saying the writer should have been less whinny? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/123 "2018-09-07T18:37:44Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > ``` > They are vouching for the person being an actual Trump admin person but not sure if they vouch for anything beyond that. > > ``` Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/124 "2018-09-07T18:57:35Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That sort of rules out any names we’d recognize (unless he’s purposefully obfuscating by saying this). I’m not sure if your comment is regarding going through an intermediary or doing investigation, but either way I don’t agree. A truly high level person would almost certainly go through an intermediary to start. And doing rigorous investigation is a necessity no matter what level the person is at. If someone calls me and says “I’m Mike Pence,” I’m not going to skip the investigation because I know that name already. On that topic, the editor at CNN believes the person is almost certainly a name that people would recognize. Publishing an anonymous op-ed is a huge deal for the NYT, and they wouldn’t do it for just anyone. I’m not sure I agree, because it’s a big story by itself and the threat to the writer is real whether it’s a known person or not. But the editor at CNN probably knows a little more about journalism than I do, so his argument carries more weight than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/125 "2018-09-07T19:12:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It was? I thought it was mostly received by “That’s not what the 25th amendment is for”. The 25th contains a provision for a removing a president if the Vice President and a cadre of fellow Executives believe that he is unfit for office. Here’s the relevant part: > [@25th Amendment](#): > > **Section 4**. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. > > Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. > > \ After that congress votes on it, or if they go into hiding, the President gets his job back. In other words, getting an unfit president out of office is _exactly_ what that part of the 25th is for. > [@](#): > > I can guarantee you we are not going to see a “25th amendment solution” to the Trump problem. Impeachment is more likely, if the Democrats take the House, but then we still are left with the fact that the Senate is unlikely to convict and remove from office. Unless, of course, Mueller comes up with some pretty crazy shit. Which I think is possible, but not probable. I didn’t say it was _likely_. I just said the majority of people seem to be fine with it, especially if the alternative is a bunch of unelected randos randomly setting policies and going behind the president’s back to shield us all from what those randos have privately decided are his destructive impulses. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/126 "2018-09-07T19:21:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That sort of rules out any names we’d recognize (unless he’s purposefully obfuscating by saying this). That was kind of my thought too (without having listened to the podcast yet). Unless, the intermediary known to the NYT said something like “John Kelly wants to get you an op-ed, but it can’t be traceable to him, so he can’t use the email address you have for him. He’ll be using the address [lodestar99@gmail.com](mailto:lodestar99@gmail.com)…” My vote is for an aide or close adviser to a Cabinet official, someone who can fairly be described as a “senior official” but who most of us have never heard of. Most of us had no idea who Mark Felt was either. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/127 "2018-09-07T19:29:38Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > [Slate has a decent argument](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/new-york-times-op-ed-anonymous-writer-trump.html) that the writer is Jon Huntsman, current ambassador to Russia. > > - it matches things important to him - basic conservative policies, quality of character > - the specific mention of Russia in the op ed > - the prose matches Huntsman’s style > - similar wording to other things he has written, like “country first” and “adults in the room” > > There was enough other stuff as well to sway me toward Huntsman. That’s actually pretty persuasive. Hmmm. Maybe I need to rethink my vote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/128 "2018-09-07T19:37:49Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > The 25th contains a provision for a removing a president if the Vice President and a cadre of fellow Executives believe that he is unfit for office. Here’s the relevant part: > > After that congress votes on it, or if they go into hiding, the President gets his job back. > > In other words, getting an unfit president out of office is _exactly_ what that part of the 25th is for. First of all, I was noting how that part was, in your words, “mostly received”. It was received the way you describe by Elizabeth Warren, but most of the commentators I have heard have said “that’s not what the 25th amendment is for” or something along those lines. The amendment, which you quoted, doesn’t say “unfit”, it says “unable” (emphasis added in your post). Those are two very different things. ---
**Author:** ![Aescwynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Aescwynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aescwynn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/129 "2018-09-07T20:38:30Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > That’s actually pretty persuasive. Hmmm. Maybe I need to rethink my vote. Wouldn’t it have to be someone privy to most everything going on? That would seem to rule out Kellyanne Conway and Jon Huntsman. Putting aside “lodestar,” I was struck by the phrase “free minds, free markets and free people.” Eloquent, and not a catchphrase you hear every day. I was also struck by “cold comfort,” which has a literary feel to it, and also doesn’t sound like something a young person would say. Coats and Pence both have Indiana backgrounds. They both went to McKinney School of Law at Indiana University, though not at the same time. I could see them being on the same wave-length about Trump, and having conversations that led to the NYT op-ed piece, probably penned by Coats. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/130 "2018-09-07T23:03:54Z")
check this website - their motto is: free minds and free markets: (it’s at the top of the page) [https://reason.com/](https://reason.com/) They are a libertarian website/magazine ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/131 "2018-09-07T23:36:43Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > check this website - their motto is: free minds and free markets: (it’s at the top of the page) > > [https://reason.com/](https://reason.com/) > > They are a libertarian website/magazine And your context for this suggestion is…? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/132 "2018-09-08T00:16:37Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > And your context for this suggestion is…? The post immediately above it. That was my first thought on reading that the phrase was not something you hear everyday. Depends on which sources you read. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/133 "2018-09-08T00:25:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The post immediately above it. That was my first thought on reading that the phrase was not something you hear everyday. Depends on which sources you read. Ah… okay. I seem to be very groggy today. Death by a thousand (news)paper cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/134 "2018-09-08T00:43:32Z")
Vladimir Putin, via proxy. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/135 "2018-09-08T02:21:34Z")
I seriously doubt the anonymous op-ed piece was written by a household name, but it could have been written by a deputy or an assistant deputy who knows what key players are up to. What matters is motive: was this an opinion piece written by someone who is legitimately afraid for the future of the country under Trump, or was it written to troll the media? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/136 "2018-09-08T03:20:14Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I seriously doubt the anonymous op-ed piece was written by a household name, but it could have been written by a deputy or an assistant deputy who knows what key players are up to. What matters is motive: was this an opinion piece written by someone who is legitimately afraid for the future of the country under Trump, or was it written to troll the media? Or was it written to drive thump over the edge so Pence will have to take over? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/137 "2018-09-08T06:33:45Z")
I found the Slate piece by Saletan pretty convincing as well. However does Huntsman really count as a senior official inside the administration? That sounds to me like someone who is working in DC. Has anyone done a statistical analysis matching the phrases in the op-ed with speeches and articles by the various suspects ? Of course the writer may have tried to disguise their writing style but there are probably subtle patterns which are difficult to get rid of. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/138 "2018-09-08T10:55:08Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Why not Pence? He is practically a perfect fit. His fawning isnt real, though I hope that’s obvious. What else precludes Pence? I don’t think it was Pence. I have read on one of those political gossip websites that he and Nikki Haley want to be the political nominees in 2020. I agree that Pence wants the Presidency, but to get the GOP nomination he’ll have to be accepted by Trump’s base. If he were revealed to be the author of the piece, that isn’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/139 "2018-09-08T14:23:33Z")
I’m not an HR professional, but if someone under you writes an op-ed saying that you’re an incompetent asshole and you can’t narrow it down to 100 people, then you probably are an incompetent asshole. I think Dumb Donald is going to force every one of his subordinates to write a letter to the NYT asking them to void the secrecy agreement and publish the author’s name. Hopefully the Times would ignore a forced request even if coming from the author. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852/140 "2018-09-08T15:28:22Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > [Slate has a decent argument](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/09/new-york-times-op-ed-anonymous-writer-trump.html) that the writer is Jon Huntsman, current ambassador to Russia. > > - it matches things important to him - basic conservative policies, quality of character > - the specific mention of Russia in the op ed > - the prose matches Huntsman’s style > - similar wording to other things he has written, like “country first” and “adults in the room” > > There was enough other stuff as well to sway me toward Huntsman. Isn’t Huntsman in Moscow? I don’t know how he could be the resistance in the WH. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-bets-who-is-the-insider-who-wrote-the-nyt-opinion-piece/820852.md?page=8)