# Taking credit cards without a signature? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549 "2005-09-26T19:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/41 "2005-09-29T18:33:53Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > In most cases, the merchant agreement allows the merchant to ask for ID with a credit card purchase only in the event that the card is unsigned, if the signature panel has worn off, the signature is otherwise illegible or does not match the signed sales slip. Really? We were told to accept unsigned cards at your own risk and that we may not ask for ID if a card is signed as a signed card is an ID for purposes of this transaction. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/42 "2005-09-29T18:39:49Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Really? We were told to accept unsigned cards at your own risk and that we may not ask for ID if a card is signed as a signed card is an ID for purposes of this transaction. :smack: That’s pretty much what I said. Nearly all merchant agreements forbid the merchant from asking for ID with a legibly signed CC, but they vary somewhat on what should be done with unsigned or illegibly-signed cards. Most that I’ve encountered allow the merchant to ask for an ID in those instances, but some do not. ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/43 "2005-09-29T19:32:32Z")
Visa spent a lot of money on a whole bunch of commercials explaining to people that you don’t need to show ID with the Visa debit card, as opposed to when writing a check. Kevin Bacon was in one, Charlie and Marin Sheen in another. The most memorable one (and the one I remember seeing most often) was the one in the pet store where the guy is buying his daughter a pair of rabbits and they overrun the store (tribbles!) while the kindly clerk is trying to verify the guy’s ID for his check. It’s a pet peeve of mine, this asking for ID stuff. As if it’s for my protection; I’m satisfied with the protection I already have against my card being stolen - it’s for the merchant’s protection, and it’s not my job to protect the merchant. Showing my ID to random clerkspeople makes me less safe, and protects my card less. One more thing. The post office where I live has a sign posted, explaining to their customers that if they’re paying by credit card, a card with “see photo id” or the like in the signature block will not be accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/44 "2005-09-29T19:55:10Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Only partially correct. In cases where fraud results from no demonstrable fault of the merchant (such as the aformentioned situation in which the customer fails to sign his card and the thief puts his own signature forgery there), the CC finance company or bank takes the hit. And guess who they pass THAT on to? And really, regardless of who takes the hit initially, be it merchant or bank, the consumer is the one who ultimately pays for it. And this is only partially correct. For merchants in particular industries, who meet or exceed a given dispute/volume ratio, or meet some other stipulated business trigger, a fraud full recourse policy may be activated. In these cases, disputes are automatically charged back to the merchant before documentation is exchanged. But yes, in cases of cardholder fraud, other cardholders ultimately pay for it. The interest you pay funds the billions of dollars sitting in the Net Loss Provision line on the income statement. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/45 "2005-09-29T22:17:45Z")
> [@AmbushBug](#): > > So if your ID has your CC billing address, you’re giving the potentially unscrupulous clerk the last piece of information they need in order to use your card after copying the number/expiration/name/cvv2. I’ve never had a merchant ask to see the cvv2, nor have I noticed anyone copying it down. The address on my photo ID is my street address, which does NOT match the billing address on my card (I use a PO box). Anyone trying to run an online scam that way is in for a surprise. > [@AmbushBug](#): > > The post office where I live has a sign posted, explaining to their customers that if they’re paying by credit card, a card with “see photo id” or the like in the signature block will not be accepted. Close. They are happy to accept cards with “see photo ID” in the signature block _as long as there’s also a signature_. They will accept “see photo ID” in addition to a signature, but not in lieu of a signature. > [@stpauler](#): > > Not to hijack the thread but…well, I’m hijacking it a bit. I’ve heard the statement that per the Merchant Agreements of Visa/MC/Amex that the merchant would be in violation of the MA if they ask the card holder to produce ID. That’s not in my merchant agreement. In fact, my terminal will randomly (?) pop up an extra question, asking for the zip code or house number from the customer. ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/46 "2005-09-30T08:02:18Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I’ve never had a merchant ask to see the cvv2, nor have I noticed anyone copying it down. The address on my photo ID is my street address, which does NOT match the billing address on my card (I use a PO box). Anyone trying to run an online scam that way is in for a surprise. Whatever works for you. And cvv2 is only 3 digits, which the EvilClerk can memorize when they look at your signature panel. I wonder if the truly paranoid should obliterate the cvv2 on their cards and store it in a separate location. Hmm. > [@](#): > > Close. They are happy to accept cards with “see photo ID” in the signature block _as long as there’s also a signature_. They will accept “see photo ID” in addition to a signature, but not in lieu of a signature. But your signature won’t match, because the squiggle on the charge slip doesn’t have “see photo id” printed next to it 😃 > [@](#): > > That’s not in my merchant agreement. In fact, my terminal will randomly (?) pop up an extra question, asking for the zip code or house number from the customer. Bet you a quarter it only does this when you key in the number by hand (such as when processing a phone order), and also that the terminal doesn’t decline the transaction because you don’t provide the zip, house number, or cvv2 when it asks. You’ll undoubtedly be charged a higher percentage on the transaction for not providing those details, though. I always wanted to get a new drivers license and sign it with SEE PHOTO ID in block letters, and use that as my official signature from then on. If people can use a squiggle, I should be able to do that 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/47 "2005-10-01T00:54:11Z")
Swiping the card on the terminal imparts more info than just the card number. They can tell which card was used, for instance, if you possess more than one card. ---
**Author:** ![abby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@abby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/48 "2005-10-05T11:48:03Z")
> [@Mr. Slant](#): > > **Abby,** please do. I’m curious. Sure thing - [here’s](http://www.abbywinters.com/chargebackexamples.zip) a zip with three jpg scans of letters (sanitised) in it, scanned for viruii. a ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/49 "2005-10-05T14:21:51Z")
> [@AmbushBug](#): > > Whatever works for you. And cvv2 is only 3 digits, which the EvilClerk can memorize when they look at your signature panel. I wonder if the truly paranoid should obliterate the cvv2 on their cards and store it in a separate location. Hmm. > SNIP Hmmm. I do have access to a card writer at work. Would it be illegal for me to just forge my own card by reproducing a card I legally had access to? That way I could prevent scammers from even knowing who issued the card. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549/50 "2005-10-05T14:46:32Z")
> [@Mr. Slant](#): > > Hmmm. I do have access to a card writer at work. > Would it be illegal for me to just forge my own card by reproducing a card I legally had access to? That way I could prevent scammers from even knowing who issued the card. Yes, because the card doesn’t belong to you, it belongs to the issuing bank. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-credit-cards-without-a-signature/323549.md?page=2)