# Taking "You kids get off my lawn" a step too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662 "2011-06-16T04:16:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/201 "2011-06-21T15:57:55Z")
I just _love_ how many people are calling the right to own a gun a “constitutional right”. > [@](#): > > A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Are you in a militia? Are you training to ensure that the government couldn’t take over and form a dictatorship? Do you think that a militia would make a difference in such a case? The context in which some of you use the second amendment makes it basically senseless. But even then… Why should it matter? There’s a big difference between pointing to a constitutional right and saying “this is correct, here’s why” (you can definitely do this in the case of rights like, say, the first amendment) and pointing to a constitutional right and saying “this is correct because the constitution says so”. And I honestly believe that the second amendment is outdated and can be removed. Why? Because now, we don’t _have_ militias. A militia would be senseless in almost every context nowadays–for conflicts with other countries, we have the US Military, and for civil wars, we _also_ have the US Military. For law enforcement we have the police. Within the original context of the bill of rights (“the people should be able to threaten the government”), it made sense. Nowadays it’s completely ludicrous. It has been since the civil war. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/202 "2011-06-21T16:34:27Z")
First of all, I repeat: “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” is an independent clause with no qualifiers, and “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” doesn’t have any verbs in it, let alone any verbs that might indicate it was intended to limit rather than explain the right elucidated in the independent clause. There, hijack over, pick another one of the 19 hojillion threads on this subject and beat your head against the wall there. Besides which, > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Are you in a militia? According to [Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, Section 331 of the US Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html), I am in fact in the Federal Milita. And so are you, if you’re an able-bodied male between 18 and 45, or a woman who is in the National Guard. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/203 "2011-06-21T17:38:26Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > According to [Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, Section 331 of the US Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html), I am in fact in the Federal Milita. > > And so are you, if you’re an able-bodied male between 18 and 45, or a woman who is in the National Guard. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/204 "2011-06-21T18:11:00Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > According to [Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, Section 331 of the US Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html), I am in fact in the Federal Milita. > > And so are you, if you’re an able-bodied male between 18 and 45, or a woman who is in the National Guard. _Golf clap._ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/205 "2011-06-21T18:23:43Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Are you in a militia? Are you training to ensure that the government couldn’t take over and form a dictatorship? Do you think that a militia would make a difference in such a case? The context in which some of you use the second amendment makes it basically senseless. I am a person. So I have a right to keep and bear arms. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/206 "2011-06-21T18:26:26Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > According to [Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, Section 331 of the US Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html), I am in fact in the Federal Milita. > > And so are you, if you’re an able-bodied male between 18 and 45, or a woman who is in the National Guard. Your move, Budget Player. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/207 "2011-06-21T18:34:23Z")
A small typo: Section 311, not 331. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/208 "2011-06-21T18:49:37Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > A small typo: Section 311, not 331. Great. Cool points for your post just dropped, Zeriel. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/209 "2011-06-21T19:22:07Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Great. Cool points for your post just dropped, Zeriel. Damnit! I knew I should have bought the premium plus club membership with automatic fact checking! Curse you, whoever’s responsible for thiiiiiis! ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/210 "2011-06-21T19:28:04Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Damnit! I knew I should have bought the premium plus club membership with automatic fact checking! Curse you, whoever’s responsible for thiiiiiis! Some overpaid government worker, no doubt. (Just trying to deflect blame. When in doubt, blame the DMV.) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/211 "2011-06-21T19:34:04Z")
Fair enough. Now does that mean that the second amendment is _justified_ in today’s day and age? ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/212 "2011-06-21T19:45:38Z")
Considering the courts have ruled that you have no right to protection provided by the police, I say yes. Do you think making all US citizens back into peasants is justified? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/213 "2011-06-21T20:04:40Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > Considering the courts have ruled that you have no right to protection provided by the police, I say yes. > > Do you think making all US citizens back into peasants is justified? Heh. I already _feel_ like a mouse on a treadmill. They didn’t need to take away my gun rights to do that! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/214 "2011-06-21T20:08:07Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Fair enough. Now does that mean that the second amendment is _justified_ in today’s day and age? I think so, yes, for any number of good and valid reasons that are best enumerated in one of the 19 hojillion threads we’ve already had on the subject. You disagree? [Maybe this will help you.](http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/) ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/215 "2011-06-21T20:14:58Z")
OT: I apologize for feeding multiple hijacks. Thank you Zeriel for trying to steer this thread back on track. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/216 "2011-06-21T21:00:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It has nothing to do with disrespecting people’s property. Taking a shit on their doorstep and setting fire to their car would be disrespecting people’s property. Ringing a doorbell and not waiting for anyone to answer it is disrespecting _people_. Can’t it be both? > [@randomface](#): > > OT: I apologize for feeding multiple hijacks. Thank you Zeriel for trying to steer this thread back on track. But we haven’t gotten to declawing yet! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/217 "2011-06-22T01:58:27Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > And so are you, if you’re an able-bodied male between 18 and 45, or a woman who is in the National Guard. 9 days until my discharge. Let’s hope the nukes stay dormant another week and a half… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/218 "2011-06-22T02:45:57Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > According to [Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, Section 331 of the US Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html), I am in fact in the Federal Milita. > > And so are you, if you’re an able-bodied male between 18 and 45, or a woman who is in the National Guard. I will sleep easier tonight knowing that our militia consists of “people who know they’re in a militia” and “everyone else.” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/219 "2011-06-22T02:51:33Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I will sleep easier tonight knowing that our militia consists of “people who know they’re in a militia” and “everyone else.” I’m actually of the opinion that statute is a bit, well, _silly_. Still, it’s the factual answer to the question. What that has to do with the price of tea in China; or for that matter, the prosecution of the obviously-guilty attempted murderer who’s the subject of the OP, I have little idea. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2011, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/220 "2011-06-22T06:45:57Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > First of all, I repeat: “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” is an independent clause with no qualifiers, and “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” doesn’t have any verbs in it, let alone any verbs that might indicate it was intended to limit rather than explain the right elucidated in the independent clause. > > There, hijack over, pick another one of the 19 hojillion threads on this subject and beat your head against the wall there. > > Besides which, > > According to [Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13, Section 331 of the US Code](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html), I am in fact in the Federal Milita. > > And so are you, if you’re an able-bodied male between 18 and 45, or a woman who is in the National Guard. You’re wrong here. I did a thread search, and the number of threads about gun control is just over 12 kajillion, far from 19 hojillian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662.md?page=10)