# Taking "You kids get off my lawn" a step too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662 "2011-06-16T04:16:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/21 "2011-06-16T06:11:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Whether the NRA would back this guy on the record or not, the guy is not that atypical of the kind of members they have. Yes he is. Cite that he isn’t? Oh, wait, your post is your cite. I should know better by now. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/22 "2011-06-16T06:21:10Z")
These bands of marauding children terrorizing law-abiding homeowners have gotten out of control. This guy should have had some piano wire strung across the sidewalk, too - can’t get away as fast that way. Now that would teach those little animals a lesson, with their songs, and…games, and… laughter. ---
**Author:** ![3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/47e85d/32.png) [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3_20_59_or_bust)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/23 "2011-06-16T06:26:08Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Absolutely. The kid’s gonna live, ain’t he? I hope you’re just trolling around for fun, because if you’re serious, you’re an absolute loon. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/24 "2011-06-16T06:33:41Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > The only thing that saved that kid was distance. By the description of the wounds, the shot was scattered enough to collapse both lungs and cause a lot of head wounds/bleeding. If he had been any closer, there would have been one big hole through the kid’s chest rather than a bunch of small ones. That’s attempted murder in my book, which I hope gets thrown at the nut. That and it was apparently birdshot - #6 or higher. (The article says that 200 pellets were removed from Eberle.) Getting shot by birdshot is no joke. But if Bishop had used buckshot, Eberle would almost certainly have been immediately killed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/25 "2011-06-16T06:35:46Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Here’s a question I’d like to know the answer to… were these kids tormenting this guy for days, weeks or months on end before this incident? Were the parents of this child aware of what their kid was doing and try to stop it? Did this guy’s wife die suddenly and he was just sitting there with his loaded shotgun? > > Something doesn’t smell right. This is psychotic behavior… almost looking for an excuse to shoot someone. Shooting a kid in the back for ringing your doorbell and running away is harmless summer fun (the doorbell ringing, not the shooting). I suspect we will find out a piece of this story that isn’t available right now. I have no knowledge beyond what’s in the article. But I have to guess Bishop must have some kind of mental disturbance to do something like this. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/26 "2011-06-16T11:40:33Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I’m on the fence about this. I’d be willing to agree that he might have gone a little bit overboard but charging him seems a bit extreme. _Shoots **AClockworkMelon** _ Get off my monitor! ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/27 "2011-06-16T12:06:44Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > He needs to be charged, convicted and sentenced because people _need_ to know that you do _not ever_ point a gun at _anyone_ unless you’re willing to kill that person. Guns are not for intimidating kids. “People” need to know? You mean “people” in general need to know? Yeah, like THAT will ever be a popular opinion. :rolleyes: As for the particular suspect in question, I’m betting he was willing to kill the kid, and that’s why he pulled the trigger. If I understand you correctly, then this means in his particular case it was OK for him to point the gun at that kid. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/28 "2011-06-16T12:09:54Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I’m on the fence about this. I’d be willing to agree that he might have gone a little bit overboard If shooting a kid in the back for ding-dong ditch is “a little bit overboard,” what do you consider “way overboard?” Why should he not be charged with attempted murder? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/29 "2011-06-16T12:15:32Z")
I sentence him to a jail cell without windows but with a door buzzer, directly across from a daycare center in which the children are encouraged to go push the botton over there. “Did you push the button today Timmy? You did? Awesome. Here’s an icecream cone!” ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/30 "2011-06-16T12:22:44Z")
Interesting that between the story and the comments in the “Around the Web” section there are 2 _additional_ stories of people being shot over “Ding Dong Ditch,” one of them killed _by a cop_. What the hell is wrong with people? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/31 "2011-06-16T12:29:09Z")
I blame the extremists in our society, generally the right wing ones. There was an article the other day about some guy getting prosecuted for running a barbed wire fence across the river that bisects his property in Colorado and injuring people who tube down it. In the article it mentions that the guy has been complaining about trespassers who walk onto his land to stop and rest or to relieve themselves. And of course, in the comments some people suggest that he shoot people who do that. :rolleyes: There’s a mentality of “You step onto my land without my permission, I have the right to shoot you” to which I do not agree. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/32 "2011-06-16T12:38:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have no knowledge beyond what’s in the article. But I have to guess Bishop must have some kind of mental disturbance to do something like this. My money on Canadian hockey fan… ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/33 "2011-06-16T12:39:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > He needs to be charged, convicted and sentenced because people _need_ to know that you do _not ever_ point a gun at _anyone_ unless you’re willing to kill that person. Guns are not for intimidating kids. There’s legal precedent for it being A-OK: [Yoshiro Hattori](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori) ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/34 "2011-06-16T13:38:46Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If shooting a kid in the back for ding-dong ditch is “a little bit overboard,” what do you consider “way overboard?” > > Why should he not be charged with attempted murder? Because look, we’ve all been there, OK? For all we know this guy’s wife just left him, his boss just called him to let him know he’s sleeping with his wife and he’s learned that he’s caught the clap from his wife. OK? > [@Severian](#): > > I’ll give you that attempted murder might be a bit of an overreach, but assuredly this is an assault. I guess I could agree that it’s assault. But it’s a slippery fucking slope. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/35 "2011-06-16T13:40:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Whether the NRA would back this guy on the record or not, the guy is not that atypical of the kind of members they have. This is simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/36 "2011-06-16T13:42:28Z")
In my opinion, people get guns because they tend to be more scared about the world, and more likely to overestimate threats, than the average person. It’s not surprising that they then over-react to the threats they perceive. The problem is that guns are a no-take-backs proposition, and someone has to pay for the gun users impairments. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/37 "2011-06-16T13:46:18Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Because look, we’ve all been there, OK? For all we know this guy’s wife just left him, his boss just called him to let him know he’s sleeping with his wife and he’s learned that he’s caught the clap from his wife. OK? > > I guess I could agree that it’s assault. But it’s a slippery fucking slope. What exactly is slippery about shooting someone in the back with a shotgun = attempted murder? “We’ve all been there”? What the fuck are you on about? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/38 "2011-06-16T13:58:51Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Because look, **we’ve all been there, OK?** For all we know this guy’s wife just left him, his boss just called him to let him know he’s sleeping with his wife and he’s learned that he’s caught the clap from his wife. OK? I haven’t been there. I’ve never felt an overwhelming urge to kill someone who committed a minor infraction against me simply because I had a bad day. If I did shoot someone in the back, I would fully expect to be charge with attempted murder, regardless of any precipitating events. If you point a shotgun at someone and pull the trigger, it’s not manslaughter; you clearly have intent to kill if you perform an action like that. The only justification for homicide recognized in a court of law is self-defense. And if you shoot an unarmed 12YO in the back from a distance, it’s not self-defense. > [@](#): > > I guess I could agree that it’s assault. But it’s a slippery fucking slope. Your reluctance to admit that this man attemped to murder a 12YO boy is amazing. You appear to endorse a society in which it’s considered OK for someone to deal with their frustrations by physically assaulting innocent third parties. You must be a big fan of road rage, and of customers who beat the crap out of cashiers when their cheeseburger is made wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/39 "2011-06-16T14:00:24Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Because look, we’ve all been there, OK? For all we know this guy’s wife just left him, his boss just called him to let him know he’s sleeping with his wife and he’s learned that he’s caught the clap from his wife. OK? > > I guess I could agree that it’s assault. But it’s a slippery fucking slope. Would you stop trolling already? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/40 "2011-06-16T14:41:08Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I’ll never get over how many morons think that the NRA _condones_ and _loves_ irresponsible, insane, dangerous gun behavior like what this moron did to that kid. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Yeah, the same NRA. If you’d actually read about them or _maybe_ get to know some actual gun owning NRA people outside the fucking echo chamber called your own head that you live inside, instead of just rattling off Brady Campaign talking points, you would know that the NRA is a huge proponent of gun safety programs for both children and adults, and is instrumental in providing education about _responsible_ gun use to people. Yeah, but the NRA is also a huge proponent – perhaps the most visible and obvious proponent of the viewpoint that the world is a dangerous place where not only are the 2nd amendment rights of NRA members/gun owners constantly under attack, ordinary people are constantly under attack from criminals who are laying in wait to do harm in every semi-shady place. And of course the NRA’s response to all of these alleged constant attacks posits “it can never hurt to have a gun.” You’ll never regret having your gun when you don’t need it, but you’ll regret _not_ having your gun when you do need it. So you have a situation where the only people who think it’s necessary or appropriate to tote guns every and anywhere, the supermarket, the playground, the _bar_, are NRA members and some (not even all) gang members. And even gang members don’t take their guns to church, but an NRA supported law enacted last year in Louisiana just paved the way for exactly that. I was an NRA member for more than a decade. I went to the annual convention that was here in Pittsburgh at the end of April. I listened to the speeches. I read the literature. There is constant “crime and danger” fearmongering happening under the NRA banner. So there’s a definite disingenuity to not see a connection between that fearmongering and someone whose response to unknown persons (children!) ringing his doorbell is to answer with a shotgun in hand. Whether he lifted it or used it or not, even _answering_ the door with a gun in hand is so over the top – unless you’re a criminal or you’re expecting the mob to be outside – it should give everyone pause. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662.md?page=3)