# Taking "You kids get off my lawn" a step too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662 "2011-06-16T04:16:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/81 "2011-06-16T20:00:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I recommend taking a more empirical approach to important life decisions. That’s what I do. It helps to prevent you from deciding what is right or wrong based on your feelings about what strangers on an anonymous internet board have to say about things. Tongue in cheek, man, tongue in cheek. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > As vague premises go this one _sounds_ fine. On the other hand, I don’t believe I have _ever_ seen a gun rights supporter concede that there is any such thing as a “moderate gun control person”, outside of someone who already believes that we already have all the gun control we need. All new proposals are assigned the “slippery slope” label, it seems. _raises hand_ I’m your one: As a gun nut, I would be happy with a national registration of firearms ownership (similar to automobile registration) and a license/training requirement similar in difficulty, comprehensiveness, availability, and cost to driver’s licensing. I’d also be happy with the owner of a gun that has been stolen being potentially criminally liable for crimes committed with that gun, if the storage of that gun was negligent and/or the theft was not reported to the police in a timely fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/82 "2011-06-16T20:01:15Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Liberating, isn’t it? No longer having to pretend? It’s like a breeze of cool mountain air on my exposed crotch, man. Nothing like it in the world. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/83 "2011-06-16T20:01:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But consider someone like Michael Bishop. Let’s assume he doesn’t end up in prison. Do you feel he should have his gun ownership rights restricted? > . I know a fair bit of pro gun people and consider myself one as well. Honestly, I dont think most of em would have much beef with a gun nut dumbass loosing his/her rights to own a gun once they pull something stupid with a gun, much less the criminal charges for doing something criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Severian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@Severian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Severian)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/84 "2011-06-16T20:11:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As vague premises go this one _sounds_ fine. On the other hand, I don’t believe I have _ever_ seen a gun rights supporter concede that there is any such thing as a “moderate gun control person”, outside of someone who already believes that we already have all the gun control we need. All new proposals are assigned the “slippery slope” label, it seems. But then is there any such thing as a moderate gun rights supporter? Or are you just talking to gun rights extremists? To the extremists on either side, the reasonable moderates in the middle are treated the same as the extremists on the other side. I think that’s **Little Nemo** ’s point. Though I would suggest that there’s little difference between a moderate gun rights supporter and a moderate gun control supporter. If not for the extremists shouting them down they’d meet in the middle and come up with a reasonable compromise. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/85 "2011-06-16T20:32:22Z")
> [@Severian](#): > > But then is there any such thing as a moderate gun rights supporter? Or are you just talking to gun rights extremists? > > To the extremists on either side, the reasonable moderates in the middle are treated the same as the extremists on the other side. I think that’s **Little Nemo** ’s point. Though I would suggest that there’s little difference between a moderate gun rights supporter and a moderate gun control supporter. If not for the extremists shouting them down they’d meet in the middle and come up with a reasonable compromise. I believe in moderate gun control, such as mandatory and periodic testing, making all private sales obey the same rules as public sales, and perhaps making a gun owner at least partially responsible for any crimes committed with the weapon she/he owns. Although I am incapable of using one for the purpose of self-defense, I think that properly trained citizens should have that right. So tell me, gun rights enthusiasts-Am I a moderate gun control advocate in your eyes? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/86 "2011-06-16T20:51:16Z")
If saying the NRA uses unspoken fear as a persuasive tactic makes me a baseless NRA basher, so be it. But that group of people, then, is different than ‘gun control nuts,’ because I think just about any gun control law that’s not a constitutional amendment is unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/87 "2011-06-16T20:54:47Z")
Moderate? Yes. Foolish? Also yes. Those restrictions would lead to a virtual ban on firearm ownership within 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/88 "2011-06-16T20:58:36Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > Moderate? Yes. Foolish? Also yes. Those restrictions would lead to a virtual ban on firearm ownership within 50 years. Ah, yes-the dreaded “slippery slope” that virtually all all attempts at gun control lead to, right? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/89 "2011-06-16T20:59:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I believe in moderate gun control, such as mandatory and periodic testing, making all private sales obey the same rules as public sales, and perhaps making a gun owner at least partially responsible for any crimes committed with the weapon she/he owns. Although I am incapable of using one for the purpose of self-defense, I think that properly trained citizens should have that right. > So tell me, gun rights enthusiasts-Am I a moderate gun control advocate in your eyes? I am for one of the three (private sales being subject to background checks), and I would be willing to get on board with testing if you put it in writing that it would be offered on a regular basis, at reasonable times, at an affordable price, and the test made proper accommodations for people who can’t read, for instance. The last one is one I am not on board with because it’s overly broad in that if a weapon is stolen from me I cannot, as the victim of a crime myself, be held accountable for further crimes. So no, you’re not unreasonable. You’re just not specific enough. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/90 "2011-06-16T21:02:50Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I am for one of the three (private sales being subject to background checks), and I would be willing to get on board with testing if you put it in writing that it would be offered on a regular basis, at reasonable times, at an affordable price, and the test made proper accommodations for people who can’t read, for instance. The last one is one I am not on board with because it’s overly broad in that if a weapon is stolen from me I cannot, as the victim of a crime myself, be held accountable for further crimes. > > So no, you’re not unreasonable. You’re just not specific enough. We agree on the first, I like your adjustments to the second, and I am willing to exempt stolen weapons _that are reported stolen ASAP_. Welcome to the Slippery Slope-I’ll spring for the first pitcher. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/91 "2011-06-16T21:05:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That and it was apparently birdshot - #6 or higher. (The article says that 200 pellets were removed from Eberle.) > > Getting shot by birdshot is no joke. But if Bishop had used buckshot, Eberle would almost certainly have been immediately killed. Question: Is it illegal to use “rock salt” shotgun ammo against people? (James Bond reference.) Is what the kids are doing qualify as trespassing? (They run, so they must feel that they are doing something “wrong”…) Disclaimer: IMO, using lead shot against these kids deserves jail time. Lead shot should be for self defence only. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/92 "2011-06-16T21:15:14Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Huh. As much as I dislike kids and their harmless “pranks”, shooting them is going a bit far. A ding dong ditch too far, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/93 "2011-06-16T21:17:46Z")
All the things you see as reasonable would easily facilitate gun confiscation or making guns illegal. These restrictions would make sure the government knows where all the guns are and who can effectively use them. This would neuter the purpose of the 2nd amendment. If guns cannot be sold or transferred without government approval or legally owned without going to training and being certified, it’s a simple bureaucratic process to end widespread ownership. That is what most politicians and others with power want. They, or their employees (bodyguards and police) have force, and no one else. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/94 "2011-06-16T21:19:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We agree on the first, I like your adjustments to the second, and I am willing to exempt stolen weapons _that are reported stolen ASAP_. > > Welcome to the Slippery Slope-I’ll spring for the first pitcher. The problem is not the “slippery slope” _per se_. The problem is that gun control efforts have been made by gun control advocates every single year. Something is taken away, and then that becomes the baseline for something else to be taken away. After the Assault Weapons Ban of 1993 gun rights people simply said “enough”, and resistance became reflexive. Not everything that they claim is “reasonable” actually is. [Look at what it takes to get a handgun in Washington, DC](http://www.examiner.com/libertarian-in-washington-dc/how-to-buy-and-register-a-handgun-the-district-of-columbia-a-survival-guide), for example. I consider that to be grotesquely unreasonable, in both time and money. Anything even remotely resembling that is a nonstarter. But that is “reasonable” gun regulation to some. Thus the disconnect. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/95 "2011-06-16T21:26:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I believe in moderate gun control, such as mandatory and periodic testing, making all private sales obey the same rules as public sales, and perhaps making a gun owner at least partially responsible for any crimes committed with the weapon she/he owns. Although I am incapable of using one for the purpose of self-defense, I think that properly trained citizens should have that right. > So tell me, gun rights enthusiasts-Am I a moderate gun control advocate in your eyes? Considering I just basically said the exact same thing and I consider myself a relative gun nut, I think you’re probably fine. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/96 "2011-06-16T21:27:51Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > Moderate? Yes. Foolish? Also yes. Those restrictions would lead to a virtual ban on firearm ownership within 50 years. Needlessly alarmist. The gun regulations we have had in our national livetime have not gotten appreciably worse, and in fact have gotten better in the last decade. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/97 "2011-06-16T21:30:26Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > All the things you see as reasonable would easily facilitate gun confiscation or making guns illegal. These restrictions would make sure the government knows where all the guns are and who can effectively use them. This would neuter the purpose of the 2nd amendment. > If guns cannot be sold or transferred without government approval or legally owned without going to training and being certified, it’s a simple bureaucratic process to end widespread ownership. That is what most politicians and others with power want. They, or their employees (bodyguards and police) have force, and no one else. Do you also believe that laws concerning freedom of speech are a dangerous “slippery slope” that will shortly bring about the destruction of the 1st Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/98 "2011-06-16T21:34:35Z")
I’ll admit, it’s a little alarmist, but I don’t think you can chalk the reduction in regulations down to the more regulation crowd being more moderate. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/99 "2011-06-16T21:35:24Z")
To put it in terms of what Airman said, I don’t think the pro-gun-rights citizenry is going to be lax enough to allow any slippery slopes in the foreseeable future. The sheer bloody-minded idiocy of the looney wing of the anti-gun movement has guaranteed that gun owners are likely to stay much more politically aware than in the mid 20th century. ---
**Author:** ![randomface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@randomface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randomface)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/100 "2011-06-16T21:36:16Z")
I think the whole concept of “free speech zones” for protesters, the Patriot Act, and the recent and ongoing attempts to regulate the internet should make people a little concerned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662.md?page=6)