# Taking "You kids get off my lawn" a step too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662 "2011-06-16T04:16:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/121 "2011-06-17T13:56:44Z")
_raises his monocle to **AClockworkMelon**._ Jolly good old bean. You’ve got them frothing now wat wat. My intestines quiver in anticipation of your next act! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/122 "2011-06-17T13:57:26Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Serious question for gun rights supporters: Do you admit that there are irresponsible gun owners, and if so, is it a concern of yours? How do you propose that issue is addressed? Of course there are. There are irresponsible ANYTHING owners. I have said numerous times that basic licensing, safety testing, and registration of firearms would not (if appropriately accessible, at or better than the level that car licensing/registration is now) IMHO impinge on the 2nd Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/123 "2011-06-17T14:36:50Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Serious question for gun rights supporters: Do you admit that there are irresponsible gun owners, and if so, is it a concern of yours? How do you propose that issue is addressed? Serious question for peaceful, law abiding citizens: Do you admit that there are irresponsible people who commit murder, and if so, is it a concern of yours? How do you propose that issue is addressed? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/124 "2011-06-17T14:45:25Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Serious question for peaceful, law abiding citizens: Do you admit that there are irresponsible people who commit murder, and if so, is it a concern of yours? How do you propose that issue is addressed? What’s your point? I’m trying to get the opinions of reasonable gun owners/supporters on a tricky situation. Do you sense some other motive? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/125 "2011-06-17T15:05:07Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Serious question for peaceful, law abiding citizens: Do you admit that there are irresponsible people who commit murder, and if so, is it a concern of yours? How do you propose that issue is addressed? I’m pretty sure we throw up our hands, wait until the murders occur, and then cry big salty crocodile tears at the unforeseeable and unavoidable tragedy of it all. You know, just like we do with gun violence/accidents. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/126 "2011-06-17T15:18:38Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > What’s your point? I’m trying to get the opinions of reasonable gun owners/supporters on a tricky situation. Do you sense some other motive? Not trying to be trite, but trying to show that if a person wants to be bad they will regardless of the law. We already have laws against murder (for example) and it doesn’t stop murder from happening. I note in advance that you asked for compromise - not a ban. But other than removing the guns what would that compromise entail? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/127 "2011-06-17T15:23:52Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Yeah after I posted that I sat back and thought for a bit - there must be subsistence hunters, and others, out there who can’t read. As well as Stanley Cup-winning NHL coaches. > **[Jacques Demers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Demers)** > > Jacques Demers (born 25 August 1944) is a former Canadian Senator, former broadcaster and former professional ice hockey head coach. Demers had started out as a chief scout for the Chicago Cougars of the World Hockey Association before rising to director of player personnel. When the team folded in 1975, he joined the Indianapolis Racers. Five games into the 1975-76 season, he was named interim coach of the team and led them to a division championship. After a second season saw him reach the p... ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/128 "2011-06-17T16:32:09Z")
On the plus side, I bet the neighborhood is a lot quieter these days. > [@Sailboat](#): > > There’s legal precedent for it being A-OK: [Yoshiro Hattori](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori) Yeah, but this kid is a _white American_. Whole 'nother kettle of fish. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/129 "2011-06-17T16:44:38Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > All we can do is check people out when they buy the weapon, do our due diligence, and trust them to do the right thing. And how is that working out so far? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/130 "2011-06-17T16:49:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And how is that working out so far? Not perfectly. but if you want perfection, i.e. absolute safety from gun violence, you’ll have to get rid of all the guns. Freedom and safety cannot be simultaneously optimized. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/131 "2011-06-17T17:23:42Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Not perfectly. but if you want perfection, i.e. absolute safety from gun violence, you’ll have to get rid of all the guns. > > Freedom and safety cannot be simultaneously optimized. Tossing in the absolutes to stall the conversation, are we? I didn’t ask for “perfection”. Is there any way to make the situation _better_? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/132 "2011-06-17T17:34:20Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > But other than removing the guns what would that compromise entail? Well that is the conversation I’m trying to have. I don’t have the answers, and not being a gun owner I wouldn’t pretend to know where a compromise might work. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/133 "2011-06-17T17:51:41Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Well that is the conversation I’m trying to have. I don’t have the answers, and not being a gun owner I wouldn’t pretend to know where a compromise might work. A noble cause indeed but it’s not a new idea. As Czarcasm noted above it’s been tried but it’s not working as well as some might want - me included. The reason is that criminals by definition break the law. I’ll be the first to admit that there would _probably_ be less death in the world if guns did not exist. But the same could be said about automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol and many other dangerous things that society recognizes that people have a right to. In the end, it is bad people that are the problem - not guns. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/134 "2011-06-17T18:07:21Z")
Wait, this is the pit. We can’t have people supporting the second amendment who acknowledge gun ownership doesn’t actually reduce the amount of crime, but who nevertheless calculate the tradeoffs and figure it’s worth it. Such people can be talked to…reasoned with. That’s entirely inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/135 "2011-06-17T18:09:35Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > A noble cause indeed but it’s not a new idea. As Czarcasm noted above it’s been tried but it’s not working as well as some might want - me included. The reason is that criminals by definition break the law. I’ll be the first to admit that there would _probably_ be less death in the world if guns did not exist. But the same could be said about automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol and many other dangerous things that society recognizes that people have a right to. > > In the end, it is bad people that are the problem - not guns. And on that note, why not allow people to buy all the firecrackers they want? Irresponsible people are the problem, not the fireworks. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/136 "2011-06-17T18:13:17Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > In the end, it is bad people that are the problem Is it OK if I want bad people to have a really hard time getting weapons that can kill me with the twitch of a finger? They can be bad with a knife, or a club or something. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/137 "2011-06-17T18:13:18Z")
I’ll concede that if guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns. But that’s a long, slippery slope away from some form of rules well-regulating the ownership of firearms. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/138 "2011-06-17T18:25:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And on that note, why not allow people to buy all the firecrackers they want? Irresponsible people are the problem, not the fireworks. Good point. The last time I went hunting with fireworks I had venison for days. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/139 "2011-06-17T18:27:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And on that note, why not allow people to buy all the firecrackers they want? Irresponsible people are the problem, not the fireworks. Because limiting fireworks, just like limiting gun ownership, reduces injuries and fatalities, but because for fireworks the price of restricting ownership is perceived as much smaller. And that’s coming from a devil’s advocate - I’d be in favor of changing the second amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662/140 "2011-06-17T18:28:25Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Good point. The last time I went hunting with fireworks I had venison for days. Because hunting for necessities is such a large part of the American life, pretty much the same as when the 2nd Amendment was first written. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/taking-you-kids-get-off-my-lawn-a-step-too-far/585662.md?page=8)